Andr3w
Assistant Pro
We learn things better when we're younger. Our developing brains are like sponges, soaking up information and techniques etc. So, no at 28 you're most likely too old to reach elite level football.
Is it possible for Mr Average to become a scratch golfer in just 12 months?
- Thread starter ScratchInAYear
- Start date
We learn things better when we're younger. Our developing brains are like sponges, soaking up information and techniques etc. So, no at 28 you're most likely too old to reach elite level football.
Davey247
Assistant Pro
Damn
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
I'm guessing he doesn't know why there are people who don't practise have better handicap and play better golf than people that do practise.
MadAdey
Money List Winner
It is impossible to debate a point with someone who does not listen and just refers to books that back up his claim. I have read a lot of books on golf and how to get better at it. Everyone had a different idea, as if everyone had the same one it would not sell. If someone comes up with a new theory then they will push it as being correct and will do their best to interpret stats and research to back it up.
I have read things on all these types of topics and in brackets how I interpret them.
bio-mechanics (the ability to learn a repetitive motion)
course management (understanding how to get round the course)
Golf psychology (being able to get in the right frame of mind)
just grip it and rip and do not care about anything else (get on with it and stop worrying)
practice, practice, then practice again (hard work and persistence)
being born with natural talent (being able to do it just because you can)
and many more.
Are any of these ideas wrong? No not at all, just in the same way none of them are right. But if you take a bit of all of them then you will crack it and be at the top of the game.
Vijay said an interesting one years ago. He said he has to practice at least twice as hard as other tour golfers out there, because he does not have the same natural ability as some of the other top players. That is a top tour player saying that, or he was in his day when he said it.
if you go on the theory that it is all about working hard and practising and nothing to do with natural ability, then all it takes is a lot of money to be the best. As then you will have the best coach, best psychologist, best personal trainer and the best facilities to practice in.
Another example of ability is a pro footballer. When Gerrard started at LFC at the age of 9 other players would have been there also and probably played alongside him all way to the under 18 team but how many of them are top class footballers? Surely everyone as they all had access to the same level of training and guidance.
I have read things on all these types of topics and in brackets how I interpret them.
bio-mechanics (the ability to learn a repetitive motion)
course management (understanding how to get round the course)
Golf psychology (being able to get in the right frame of mind)
just grip it and rip and do not care about anything else (get on with it and stop worrying)
practice, practice, then practice again (hard work and persistence)
being born with natural talent (being able to do it just because you can)
and many more.
Are any of these ideas wrong? No not at all, just in the same way none of them are right. But if you take a bit of all of them then you will crack it and be at the top of the game.
Vijay said an interesting one years ago. He said he has to practice at least twice as hard as other tour golfers out there, because he does not have the same natural ability as some of the other top players. That is a top tour player saying that, or he was in his day when he said it.
if you go on the theory that it is all about working hard and practising and nothing to do with natural ability, then all it takes is a lot of money to be the best. As then you will have the best coach, best psychologist, best personal trainer and the best facilities to practice in.
Another example of ability is a pro footballer. When Gerrard started at LFC at the age of 9 other players would have been there also and probably played alongside him all way to the under 18 team but how many of them are top class footballers? Surely everyone as they all had access to the same level of training and guidance.
Andr3w
Assistant Pro
You're making simplistic one variable comparisons.
Andr3w
Assistant Pro
Then there's Tiger who has said he doesn't have any natural talent but is instead a product of his circumstances, environment and conditioning.
Andr3w
Assistant Pro
Ability at sport is "imprinted" on our brains like a native language if we start young. Then as we get older it appears that we find sport easy in the same way that we find speaking English easy. We appear to be able to maintain our native language skills without much effort and it looks easy. Meanwhile the foreign speaker is "practising incessantly" to try to reach our "Tiger Woods" levels of English. But they probably never will, as they didn't start young enough.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Not at all
I have managed to get to a very good level without practise and lessons - simply because I believe I have a natural ability for the game
You have dismissed people have natural ability putting it all down to practise and work.
S
Snelly
Guest
You don't. You're off 5.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Do you not believe that to be a high standard for an amatuer golfer then - when you consider the average is around 18
S
Snelly
Guest
I am not saying it is definitive. It is just a lot more credible an argument than yours.
Qwerty
Tour Winner
I reckon this one has legs, it just needs someone with plenty of time on their hands to back up Andrew 
I can't see it rivalling The HNSP thread though
I haven't read it but Ive looked into the book by the Ping Pong player, and I'd love to believe what he's claiming so I guess I'll have to read it.
It appears though that its about people achieving excellence.. Being the absolute best they can in their chosen profession/sport.
The natural talent I'm claiming exists is at a much lower level.. Mates growing up who couldn't of played any more football than I did & yet went on to achieve great things. I spent every spare moment with a ball at my feet, was quick, right size & physique, I just didn't have the talent they had.We we're all young, Same background, what made the difference if it wasn't natural talent.
Although nothing can be proven Theres endless amounts of examples out there.( I'm going to mention Greg Norman again)
Im sure Matthew Syed is an intelligent guy and the book sounds interesting but surely Natural Talent cannot be totally Dismissed.
Im presuming Mr Syed is claiming it should be?
I can't see it rivalling The HNSP thread though I haven't read it but Ive looked into the book by the Ping Pong player, and I'd love to believe what he's claiming so I guess I'll have to read it.
It appears though that its about people achieving excellence.. Being the absolute best they can in their chosen profession/sport.
The natural talent I'm claiming exists is at a much lower level.. Mates growing up who couldn't of played any more football than I did & yet went on to achieve great things. I spent every spare moment with a ball at my feet, was quick, right size & physique, I just didn't have the talent they had.We we're all young, Same background, what made the difference if it wasn't natural talent.
Although nothing can be proven Theres endless amounts of examples out there.( I'm going to mention Greg Norman again
)Im sure Matthew Syed is an intelligent guy and the book sounds interesting but surely Natural Talent cannot be totally Dismissed.
Im presuming Mr Syed is claiming it should be?
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S
Snelly
Guest
There's no wonder you've racked up 7863 posts so fast with gems like this eh?
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
I'm not saying mine is fact, it's just what I believe (and I'm far too stubborn to change my point of view), I'm just interested in the theory that because he say's so it must be fact!
Is it his own work/theory or other "experts" views that he uses, is he qualified etc ? - asking out of interest, not just so I can attempt to disprove.
S
Snelly
Guest
No. And neither am I.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
So what do you consider to be high standard for an amatuer golfer then
londonlewis
Tour Rookie
The average handicap is much higher than that.
Apparently 80% of golfers will not achieve a handicap of less than 18.
londonlewis
Tour Rookie
Do you have proof to back this up or is this your opinion?
Sounds like you are a strong believer in 'you can't teach old dogs new tricks'.
Nonsense.
Jimbooo
Challenge Tour Pro
Another example...
Take Ronnie O'Sullivan, when he's on form he glides around the table and plays so naturally and gracefully, like it's second nature. It comes easy to him, he sees the angles quickly, can see the shots easy, has no problem with technique or the pace to hit the ball. It comes naturally. This also came naturally to him when he was 10 years old, it wasn't a learned skill over 10000 perfect practice hours.
There have been dozens of top-class snooker professionals who have played the game since childhood, been coached by top coaches, and have all the attributes to reach the pinnacle of their sport. Yet none of these find it as easy as Ronnie.
You just have to look at the difference between how Ronnie plays and how some of the slower more technique based players play (e.g. Barry Hawkins, Mark Selby, Marko Fu, etc ) to know that some are just more naturally gifted than others.
To me, natural talent is a combination of innate good timing and hand-eye coordination. Not everyone has it. Those with it just find things easier.
So given any 2 infants with the same physique, are you saying that one will never find it easier than the other at learning any given skill?
Take Ronnie O'Sullivan, when he's on form he glides around the table and plays so naturally and gracefully, like it's second nature. It comes easy to him, he sees the angles quickly, can see the shots easy, has no problem with technique or the pace to hit the ball. It comes naturally. This also came naturally to him when he was 10 years old, it wasn't a learned skill over 10000 perfect practice hours.
There have been dozens of top-class snooker professionals who have played the game since childhood, been coached by top coaches, and have all the attributes to reach the pinnacle of their sport. Yet none of these find it as easy as Ronnie.
You just have to look at the difference between how Ronnie plays and how some of the slower more technique based players play (e.g. Barry Hawkins, Mark Selby, Marko Fu, etc ) to know that some are just more naturally gifted than others.
To me, natural talent is a combination of innate good timing and hand-eye coordination. Not everyone has it. Those with it just find things easier.
So given any 2 infants with the same physique, are you saying that one will never find it easier than the other at learning any given skill?
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Snelly
Guest
I used to share your view but changed my mind after reading Bounce. Perhaps better if you read it rather than me paraphrase the arguments. That said, his views are based on his experience as an Olympic medal winning athlete combined with the investigations he made in order to write the book, including a lot of interviews with experts in this field and other top sports people.
