Is it possible for Mr Average to become a scratch golfer in just 12 months?

Andr3w

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...so in your logic, as a 28 year old who hasn't played football much more than the odd game of 5-a-side could absolutely (with the hard work and dedication) have a shot of improving my game such that I could be in with a chance of getting to the 2018 World Cup in Russia??

The fact is, some people are good at sports, some people aren't. I'm not saying that in exceptional cases the odd person could go from duffer to top dog, but these are rare. Most cases people find there level within a few years and will then improve and cut their hcp by around 20% max in the next 10-15 years

We learn things better when we're younger. Our developing brains are like sponges, soaking up information and techniques etc. So, no at 28 you're most likely too old to reach elite level football.
 

MadAdey

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It is impossible to debate a point with someone who does not listen and just refers to books that back up his claim. I have read a lot of books on golf and how to get better at it. Everyone had a different idea, as if everyone had the same one it would not sell. If someone comes up with a new theory then they will push it as being correct and will do their best to interpret stats and research to back it up.

I have read things on all these types of topics and in brackets how I interpret them.

bio-mechanics (the ability to learn a repetitive motion)
course management (understanding how to get round the course)
Golf psychology (being able to get in the right frame of mind)
just grip it and rip and do not care about anything else (get on with it and stop worrying)
practice, practice, then practice again (hard work and persistence)
being born with natural talent (being able to do it just because you can)
and many more.

Are any of these ideas wrong? No not at all, just in the same way none of them are right. But if you take a bit of all of them then you will crack it and be at the top of the game.

Vijay said an interesting one years ago. He said he has to practice at least twice as hard as other tour golfers out there, because he does not have the same natural ability as some of the other top players. That is a top tour player saying that, or he was in his day when he said it.

if you go on the theory that it is all about working hard and practising and nothing to do with natural ability, then all it takes is a lot of money to be the best. As then you will have the best coach, best psychologist, best personal trainer and the best facilities to practice in.

Another example of ability is a pro footballer. When Gerrard started at LFC at the age of 9 other players would have been there also and probably played alongside him all way to the under 18 team but how many of them are top class footballers? Surely everyone as they all had access to the same level of training and guidance.
 

Andr3w

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It is impossible to debate a point with someone who does not listen and just refers to books that back up his claim. I have read a lot of books on golf and how to get better at it. Everyone had a different idea, as if everyone had the same one it would not sell. If someone comes up with a new theory then they will push it as being correct and will do their best to interpret stats and research to back it up.

I have read things on all these types of topics and in brackets how I interpret them.

bio-mechanics (the ability to learn a repetitive motion)
course management (understanding how to get round the course)
Golf psychology (being able to get in the right frame of mind)
just grip it and rip and do not care about anything else (get on with it and stop worrying)
practice, practice, then practice again (hard work and persistence)
being born with natural talent (being able to do it just because you can)
and many more.

Are any of these ideas wrong? No not at all, just in the same way none of them are right. But if you take a bit of all of them then you will crack it and be at the top of the game.

Vijay said an interesting one years ago. He said he has to practice at least twice as hard as other tour golfers out there, because he does not have the same natural ability as some of the other top players. That is a top tour player saying that, or he was in his day when he said it.

if you go on the theory that it is all about working hard and practising and nothing to do with natural ability, then all it takes is a lot of money to be the best. As then you will have the best coach, best psychologist, best personal trainer and the best facilities to practice in.

Another example of ability is a pro footballer. When Gerrard started at LFC at the age of 9 other players would have been there also and probably played alongside him all way to the under 18 team but how many of them are top class footballers? Surely everyone as they all had access to the same level of training and guidance.

Then there's Tiger who has said he doesn't have any natural talent but is instead a product of his circumstances, environment and conditioning.
 

Andr3w

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Ability at sport is "imprinted" on our brains like a native language if we start young. Then as we get older it appears that we find sport easy in the same way that we find speaking English easy. We appear to be able to maintain our native language skills without much effort and it looks easy. Meanwhile the foreign speaker is "practising incessantly" to try to reach our "Tiger Woods" levels of English. But they probably never will, as they didn't start young enough.
 
D

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You're making simplistic one variable comparisons.
Not at all

I have managed to get to a very good level without practise and lessons - simply because I believe I have a natural ability for the game

You have dismissed people have natural ability putting it all down to practise and work.
 
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Snelly

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I've not read it so can't judge for myself, but why is Matthew Syed's book so definitively the correct answer. Why is he, a former wiff-waff player, the basis of fact?

I am not saying it is definitive. It is just a lot more credible an argument than yours.
 

Qwerty

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I reckon this one has legs, it just needs someone with plenty of time on their hands to back up Andrew :whistle: I can't see it rivalling The HNSP thread though :p


I haven't read it but Ive looked into the book by the Ping Pong player, and I'd love to believe what he's claiming so I guess I'll have to read it.
It appears though that its about people achieving excellence.. Being the absolute best they can in their chosen profession/sport.
The natural talent I'm claiming exists is at a much lower level.. Mates growing up who couldn't of played any more football than I did & yet went on to achieve great things. I spent every spare moment with a ball at my feet, was quick, right size & physique, I just didn't have the talent they had.We we're all young, Same background, what made the difference if it wasn't natural talent.

Although nothing can be proven Theres endless amounts of examples out there.( I'm going to mention Greg Norman again;))

Im sure Matthew Syed is an intelligent guy and the book sounds interesting but surely Natural Talent cannot be totally Dismissed.
Im presuming Mr Syed is claiming it should be?
 
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D

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I am not saying it is definitive. It is just a lot more credible an argument than yours.

I'm not saying mine is fact, it's just what I believe (and I'm far too stubborn to change my point of view), I'm just interested in the theory that because he say's so it must be fact!
Is it his own work/theory or other "experts" views that he uses, is he qualified etc ? - asking out of interest, not just so I can attempt to disprove.
 

Jimbooo

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Another example...

Take Ronnie O'Sullivan, when he's on form he glides around the table and plays so naturally and gracefully, like it's second nature. It comes easy to him, he sees the angles quickly, can see the shots easy, has no problem with technique or the pace to hit the ball. It comes naturally. This also came naturally to him when he was 10 years old, it wasn't a learned skill over 10000 perfect practice hours.

There have been dozens of top-class snooker professionals who have played the game since childhood, been coached by top coaches, and have all the attributes to reach the pinnacle of their sport. Yet none of these find it as easy as Ronnie.

You just have to look at the difference between how Ronnie plays and how some of the slower more technique based players play (e.g. Barry Hawkins, Mark Selby, Marko Fu, etc ) to know that some are just more naturally gifted than others.

To me, natural talent is a combination of innate good timing and hand-eye coordination. Not everyone has it. Those with it just find things easier.

So given any 2 infants with the same physique, are you saying that one will never find it easier than the other at learning any given skill?
 
S

Snelly

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I'm not saying mine is fact, it's just what I believe (and I'm far too stubborn to change my point of view), I'm just interested in the theory that because he say's so it must be fact!
Is it his own work/theory or other "experts" views that he uses, is he qualified etc ? - asking out of interest, not just so I can attempt to disprove.

I used to share your view but changed my mind after reading Bounce. Perhaps better if you read it rather than me paraphrase the arguments. That said, his views are based on his experience as an Olympic medal winning athlete combined with the investigations he made in order to write the book, including a lot of interviews with experts in this field and other top sports people.
 
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