Is it better than a hole in one?

[HawkeyeMS]

Obviously you can have a lucky hole in one, as has been stated, but a well struck shot that goes in the desired target is not luck just the perfect shot. Hence why the odds are so high as it is very difficult to do, so to dismiss it when it is achieved as luck is insulting to the person who has hit it.

You are totally missing my point. I'm not taking anything away from the player hitting the shot, but the difference between a good shot that stops within a few feet and a good shot that goes in is luck, it can't be anything else.

Sure a HIO is something to talk about but there is no more or less skill (or luck) involved than holing out from the fairway.

My first aim on any approach is to hit the green somewhere near the pin to give myself a chance to make the putt. Holing it is not my intention because it simply isn't possible for me to purposely hit the exact shot required, taking into account all of the variables and unknowns, to deliberately hit the ball in the hole. All I get do is hit the shot to the best of my ability and hope for the best. That is all any of us can do. The skill is in hitting the ball in the vacinity of the hole. The luck is where it actually stops.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Well I've had a hole in 1 (went in the air, bounced and went in the hole at a pace you'd put it at, no rebounds etc) and an eagle (pitched in from about 110 yards). And both were at the same time the luckiest and most skillful shots I've ever hit. Luck as in I could probably never do it again in 10 thousand tries. Skill as it did exactly what I was intending it to do.

People that have had the misfortune to see me play could argue the hole in 1 must have been very lucky, but for those 10 or so seconds I could argue I was one of the best golfers on the planet, executing something that thousands of golfers try and fail to do every day . So I find it difficult to argue that there was not a huge amount of luck and for those 10 seconds, skill involved.

And by the way the hole in I felt a hell of a lot better.

 

[garyinderry]

Anything over around 15 feet is where luck begins to set in. Only minor amounts building up to the large slices of luck required to hole out on a par 3 or from the fairway.

If you can't repeat something two or three times in a row with consummate ease through skill, then lady luck is starting to appear.

It is not luck for a good darts players to hit 3 bullseyes. It is when I do it. Lol

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Anything over around 15 feet is where luck begins to set in. Only minor amounts building up to the large slices of luck required to hole out on a par 3 or from the fairway.

If you can't repeat something two or three times in a row with consummate ease through skill, then lady luck is starting to appear.

It is not luck for a good darts players to hit 3 bullseyes. It is when I do it. Lol

So every golfer in the world is lucky?

 

[garyinderry]

Some are just more in control of their luck than others.


In golf, like a lot of things there will be elements of luck ranging from miniscule to humongous. Lots of people struggling with this concept.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Some are just more in control of their luck than others.


In golf, like a lot of things there will be elements of luck ranging from miniscule to humongous. Lots of people struggling with this concept.

I think we all get there is a degree of luck in golf, but when you are stood on the Tee on a par 3, I would think 99% of people visualize the shot, choose the right club, have everything right in there mind and play the shot, sometimes (very rarely) it goes in, why is that lucky, or every time we miss it's unlucky? No, sometimes it's down to the fact it was a good shot,
A long shot to the green when aiming for the green and not the flag that goes in, is lucky, because it's not what you aimed for

 

[garyinderry]

I think we all get there is a degree of luck in golf, but when you are stood on the Tee on a par 3, I would think 99% of people visualize the shot, choose the right club, have everything right in there mind and play the shot, sometimes (very rarely) it goes in, why is that lucky

The amount of things that need to fall into place for that shot is absolutely massive. That is why the odds of a HIO are so big. Anything could change the outcome of that ball going into the hole.

List list could go on all day ... not all are obvious

Hit a fraction to hard, soft it doesn't go in.
Green that bit softer / drier than 10 minutes ago it doesn't go in
Wind picked up/ dropped in any direction it doesn't go in.
You didn't clean the dirt from the 4th groove it doesn't go in.
Hits a tiny pebble from the sand on the green it doesn't go in.


This list is practically endless. Some play a major, some play an near inconceivable part in the ball either going in or missing.

All you can do is given the ball the best chance of going in. This is where skill takes a big chunk out of the odds.

If and Rory Milroy were to stand and pound balls at a green trying to get a HIO. His skill level would lower the odds of him getting one quicker then me. It is not impossible for me to hole out quicker than him due to a large slice of luck.

 

[Imurg]

But there are so many variables to any shot. A slight gust of wind, a speck of mud on the ball, even a slight scuff can all cause a shot to deviate one way or the other.
To hit a ball 150 yards and have it finish exactly where you want it to is virtually unrepeatable in a series of shots - therefore if it happens there must be an element of luck.
And who's to say someone approaching from 150 yards isn't aiming at the flag with a view to holing it...? So if it happens from the fairway or tee the result is the same.
They have equal importance and rely on equal amounts of luck.

 

[Qwerty]

No difference between that and a hole in one to me. Both contain massive elements of luck.

So if it's not about skill, it must be luck?

So did you know "exactly" how far away the hole was?

There's nothing narrow minded about it and it's not taking away from a good shot, it's just being realistic. A shot that lands 6" from the hole is no better or worse than one that goes in, the one that went in just had a bit more luck to it.

I give up, you win. Every hole in one is intended and involves no luck at all. In each case the player was intending to hit the ball exactly where they hit it and the ball reacted exactly as they intended before going in. No luck involved whatsoever.

So just tell me again, why don't we get more of them?

I've given up, I was wrong

You seem to be quite passionate about the amount of luck involved in the shot..

Have you ever had a hole in one?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

The skill is in hitting the ball in the vacinity of the hole. The luck is where it actually stops.

I think this sums it up perfectly :thup:

 

[CMAC]

But there are so many variables to any shot. A slight gust of wind, a speck of mud on the ball, even a slight scuff can all cause a shot to deviate one way or the other.
To hit a ball 150 yards and have it finish exactly where you want it to is virtually unrepeatable in a series of shots - therefore if it happens there must be an element of luck.
And who's to say someone approaching from 150 yards isn't aiming at the flag with a view to holing it...? So if it happens from the fairway or tee the result is the same.
They have equal importance and rely on equal amounts of luck.

there is an element of luck in any sport, any 'shot' taken in anything you do is susceptible to chaos theory, more commonly referred to as the butterfly effect.

I remember watching a documentary on some top class cricketers and the researchers could make these 'stars' miss any bowled shot with minute variations in the ball landing area.

So I think we can all agree there is luck involved as even an automaton could not get a HIO each time.

 

[chillicon]

What would give you more satisfaction - a HIO on a 125 yard par 3 or holing out for a 2 from 200 yards on a long par 4...?

The fact that you had to make the hole out on the par 4 from much further away, undermines the point you were trying to make. Why not make it from the heavy rough with overhanging branches, over water, into gale force winds, with a bad back and a verruca on your big toe.

To me it doesn't matter which eagle shot is the most difficult, a 1 is better than a 2 every time.

 

[guest100718]

The fact that you had to make the hole out on the par 4 from much further away, undermines the point you were trying to make. Why not make it from the heavy rough with overhanging branches, over water, into gale force winds, with a bad back and a verruca on your big toe.

To me it doesn't matter which eagle shot is the most difficult, a 1 is better than a 2 every time.

And that should be the end of the thread.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Getting it with 8 or ten feet might be a result of skill, but getting it in the hole is all luck!

Well said.
I have had two albatross's, one a hole in one, three great shots though!

My father had 5 hole in ones and his brother, who was one of Scotland's best professionals in his time, never achieved a hole in one.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I saw on one of their videos that Rick Shiels or Pete Finch said they had never had a hole in 1. Kind of makes me embarrassed to say I have had one, if you compare our swings.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

You seem to be quite passionate about the amount of luck involved in the shot..

Have you ever had a hole in one?

No, never had one but I have hit a lot of good shots very close, one day one might go in but it won't be the result of a better shot or any more skill on my part.

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

No, never had one but I have hit a lot of good shots very close, one day one might go in but it won't be the result of a better shot or any more skill on my part.

As I have posted I've been lucky and had 4 hole in ones (I've also holed out for an eagle two about 20 times) they were all good shots however, the 1st one was lucky, the 2nd one was lucky, the 3rd one was lucky and the last one I didn't see go in but I reckon it too was LUCKY

 

[HawkeyeMS]

As I have posted I've been lucky and had 4 hole in ones (I've also holed out for an eagle two about 20 times) they were all good shots however, the 1st one was lucky, the 2nd one was lucky, the 3rd one was lucky and the last one I didn't see go in but I reckon it too was LUCKY

Not completely lucky, but certainly an element of it. I've holed out for eagle a few times, they were good shots too, but also lucky.

 

[John_Findlay]

OP raises an interesting point.

If anyone asks if I've had a hole-in-one I say yes, 2 actually. The 6th at Craigielaw and the 11th at Castle Stuart. But I've had 2 albatrosses at par 5s as well which are clearly better. 18th at Nairn Dunbar and the 8th at Mortonhall.

Must have had umpteen eagles at par 4s from pitches etc over the last 35 years but I don't count them, strangely.

 

[Imurg]

OP raises an interesting point.

If anyone asks if I've had a hole-in-one I say yes, 2 actually. The 6th at Craigielaw and the 11th at Castle Stuart. But I've had 2 albatrosses at par 5s as well which are clearly better. 18th at Nairn Dunbar and the 8th at Mortonhall.

Must have had umpteen eagles at par 4s from pitches etc over the last 35 years but I don't count them, strangely.

Ah.. But 1 is always better than 2 John.....:ears::thup: