Is golf too accessible for the idiotic minority???

[MVP]

I dont think its golf alone to be fair . you get people jumping over the fences at tennis courts, people not paying there subs at football games to be honest if someones an idiot then they'll take that to any sport they like! Im sure you probably seen it on the pool table at some places jon too. And of most places its idiots fishing without a rod license and believe me ive seen some idiots on the river bank mis treating the fish littering shouting etc, i'd say fishing gets it worse than golf IMO.But what can you do .eg. you cant charge 200 pound for a rod licence.

Some golf courses ask for a handicap cert. which will limit the riff raff. Id strong dis agree with the driving license idea because it will limit those who show an honest interest in the sport and cost more money. id love to play golf after work in my shorts and t shirts like they do in the states.
To be fair i think you just gotta live with it, the odd moron or 2 turn up at a private club as well not just pay and play so there you go

 

[John_Findlay]

MVP, the main reason most clubs won't let you play golf in shorts and a t-shirt is that you'll look like you've turn up for a game of 5-a-side. The only place I've ever done that was Portugal. I know better now.

I get embarrassed when my mates wear their shorts on the course. I'm sorry, but even Tiger looks like a pikey (very pc) when he wears them. You've just got half the inhabitants of the St Andrew's cemetaries turning in their graves.

Bah humbug.

 

[muttleee]

The problem with the licence idea is that some clubs won't want to enforce it if it means turning away paying customers. Otherwise it sounds like a good enough scheme.

 

[toonarmy]

Ooh it's a touchy one this, isn't it? The ability to demonstrate sufficient understanding to be allowed on the course (license idea) won't be accepted for the very simple reason that will be considered 'another' barrier to an already 'inaccessible' sport by the power-makers and they won't do anything that risks little Charlie from taking the game up.

I think we'd all like it if people were just nicer and more considerate like the good ol' Bertie Wooster days, but then we'd all have to wear tweed jackets on the course and shoot the poor for fun.

Rather than a license scheme, how about a mentoring scheme? Every new member is assigned a 'buddy' who is expected to educate the newbie on expected behaviour. You could even introduce an exam at the end of the year to see if the member/newbie are up to scratch.

As for pay-and-play types - just go back to PnP courses only and restore some member + guest courses like they used to be.

There, retreat to a safe distance...

 

[viscount17]

I'll take issue with DCB on the matter of Vouchers. I'm a member of a club but my playing partner and I use them to enable us to play other courses, usually at weekends. Not all courses that accept vouchers permit their use at weekends and some are very restrictive as to who they will permit (handicap certificates etc) but that's their right.

 

[viscount17]

Sorry J-F, I see nothing wrong with tailored shorts and a collared shirt, though I draw the line at long socks!
That there are some who shouldn't be seen dead in shorts I will admit but equally there are some who are fashion disasters in 'acceptable' dress.

 

[RGuk]

As someone who started out (at 22) on Public courses, I have to say Golf should be accessible to everyone. At the club attached to the muni, everyone was well behaved, extremely knowledgeable, fun, reliable, good team members etc. ...the list goes on...

Some of the folk who used the course were idiots, but they didn't get on between 8.00 am and whenever the club time ended. On sat's it was about 9.30, sundays nearer 10.30.

The council agreed to let the pro shop organise the tee times so those turning up "on spec" had to wait, and those that booked by phone were given set times. We never had any bother.

If we turned up any other time (weekdays), we could get lucky or not with idiots out n about.

Unfortunately, there will always be a few folk selfish enough to put their agenda above everyone else's. That's life, I wouldn't stop them playing golf, but I'd try to stay out of their way. A few folks were thrown off the course, the pro tended to borrow a dozen big lads from the clubhouse (where the public cannot go), we'd hunt the critters down with 3 irons at the ready!! t.b.h. in this place where I lived, the people were good and behaviour on the streets/in the pub/at public facilities was well policed by the local people....sadly, this is less apparent these days.

Dave

 

[time_vans]

yes....is the short answer.and i cant believe anyone on here is at all suprised . just look at society you have the full spectrum of behaviour mirrored everywhere the golf course is no different. you will find that most golfers who follow a'code of conduct' on the course do so away from the course it follows that those who do not wont change just because they have a golf club in their hand. the soloution ?? well sorry but restricted access ie members only clubs and courses is the only gurantee.sure costs may be prohibitive but what value do you place on pleasure and enjoyment. i would rather pay more to gurantee some knob isn't going to spoil my pleasure especially if other commitments mean i can only play once per week.as a comparison fishing has changed in this respect with the emergence of commercial fisheries. natural venues with public right of ways are used less and less as lakes on private property offer restricted access safe parking and generally moron free environments sorry to bang on but getting your one and only bit of fresh air for the week ruined will focus your mind and wallet to what is important.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

To divert on a slight tangent and it something touched on before, a lot of the boorish behaviour will continue while role models such as Woods spit and Garcia shows temper tantrums. It is similar to football where newbies act like their peers and think it acceptable behaviour.

I think a licence is one way forward although I see too many obstacles from preventing being totally workable especially on pay and play which are reliant on numbers to make a profit. Many turn a blind eye on standards in return for cold hard cash.

I think the scheme works well in places like Holland because there is quite simply not the same number of golfers as the UK. I think also it has a lot to do with "English" mentality (think football fan) whereby they think because they can afford the gear it gives them cart blanche to act as they deem fit. I remember playing at Silvermere in Surrey which is a mecca for the "all the gear and no idea" Japanese but as soon as they realise they were holding up play they would wave you through. Again this has much to do with upbringing and the way they conduct themselves in public.

I fear there is no easy answers apart from joining private member clubs (which we know is not acessible to many on here or golfers in general).

My two pence worth. Rant mode off !

 

[Atticus_Finch]

Perhaps professionals should do less instructional videos/articles and do more on etiquette. Lead by example and stress to the kids how important it is.
Perhaps GM could make it a regular feature (a bit like the "Know the rules" bit you do.)

Mike?

 

[GB72]

Like the idea on the magazine feature.

Might be a bit naive but could some of the problems be sorted by just having a decent starter on the 1st and 10th tees (assuming they are the only 2 near the clubhouse). This would make it harder for non paying desireables to get on the course and also give a brief chance to look over who is playing on the course and maybe have a gentle word if the party in question look out of their depth. Any problems with a group reported on the front 9 could be addressed by the starter on the 10th. Too many courses that I have seen are just happy to take the money in the pro shop and send people out with no consideration. They do not even group up 1 and 2 balls when the course is busy.

 

[Junior]

We had a speight of people hopping onto our course to play last Summer so as members we were encourage to just cast an eye on bags for members tags and green fee paid tickets.

To join our club like many others you have to be proposed and seconded, then just play a few holes with the captain or a committee member. I think this does just a good a job as any exam. There are lots of courses around where i live and all have the same policy.

HOWEVER, if you only play municiple courses you must understand that you may come across a more varied mix of golfer like :

-parent and child
-people just starting and learning the game
-the golfer who doesnt play enough to warrant a membership to a club
and the one we fear . . .
-The golfer who's aim it is to drink a can of special brew per hole and get absolutely wasted by the end of the frony 9!!

 

[Dormie]

Going to swim slightly against the current on this one!

Golf should be as accessible as possible to as many people as possible, however.........

I believe timevans got it pretty much spot on when he speaks about standards on the golf course mirroring what we see in society generaly. That being said; lets look at one of the main causal factors for this break down in society, I hope all would agree: Parents not educating kids properly, no one willing to come forward and speak up after boorish behaviour and communities or individuals not taking ownership of their own problems.

I see this as a similar issue: I believe we all have a duty to politely educate others on the golf course where that education is welcomed, and speak out where our instruction falls on deaf ears; otherwise how can we complain when we ourselves have done nothing to solve what is essentialy our problem.

Stand up for your right to enjoy your course, the more people who do the less likelihood of this behaviour continuing.

Running for cover now............

 

[medwayjon]

The problem with society is this. Scrotes breed scrotes. Mr & Mrs Scrote have 3 kids, who have 3 kids who have 3 kids and so on.

We had £29k worth of damage done to our cars at work, the CPS said it wasn't in the public interest to prosecute and the little bastards dad, himself a low-life scaghead, thought his son causing us this damage was hilarious.

 

[Dormie]

I agree Jon, I agree.

It sort of proves my point; brought up wrong, no education and no respect. That wont change in the environment of the CPS or Criminal Justice Systems, that's their playpark!

Golf courses are ours however, it's our environment not theirs, don't let them have it!

 

[viscount17]

I can't say that we have a lot of problems on our course, the main one being the 'too-social societies'. I can't say I've ever run into the hooligan element here but then they'll be out of balls by the time they reach the fourth; lots of lovely water!

We have a starter,shares the 1st and 10th, but not often. We don't even require tickets to be displayed, members tags yes, casuals no - odd that. We have a booking system, but only at weekends and a member can still get in between games if you start at 10. We don't double-up singles, though that would be nice - it can be lonely out there, Carruthers.

I think overall a good starter system, displayed tags and gentle advice etc makes sound sense.

 

[Pinhal_Pete]

I’m not sure that there is an easy way to handle this, as most clubs probably welcome the extra income that visitors provide; the trade-off being that such fees are used for the benefit of the members.

As a few people have mentioned above, it is all about how people conduct themselves on the course. In many cases, this is probably influenced by what they see the professionals doing – like most sports – so maybe a start would be to remind the pros that certain things should not be done when playing in a televised tournament – I do remember Ewan expressing disgust upon seeing Tiger spitting – in the hope that this will influence those who feel they must act in this way.

Unfortunately, with some of the attitudes in society today, there will always be some eejits !

 

[Viper]

Lovely to read this thread as it is a matter which I raised on the Virtual Golf Society forum a couple on months ago but received little response. I agree that golfing standards and behaviour are issues which require addressing but how one achieves it is not so easy. Forty years ago it would have been far easier as standards for everything in the UK were so much higher. Nowadays if one raises golf standards either by price or regulation the cry of 'elitist' soon resounds! Having said that, disregarding prohibitive pricing for a moment, my bias is in favour of elitism if such means that only those with basic golf competence, insurance, manners and respect for both the course and other golfers should be allowed to play on a golf course.

So, my vote is an uniquivocable "Yes," as I personally believe that golf is too accessible for the idiotic minority. I am however unconvinced that indeed the hooligans are a minority, but then I do play on a public golf course not at a private golf club!

Before commenting on possible additional regulation I would need to know a lot much more about how golf is administered and regulated and in particular the powers (if any) of our governing body over both public and private golf clubs.

Subject to that, I too am in favour of a licensing procedure for new golfers. Certainly my opinion is that it should be criminal to play without golf insurance which underwrites injuring others.

the Viper

P.S. I am amused to note that I am classified as a "Stranger." Not the most friendliest of terms , however a stranger is a friend whom you have not yet said "Hello" to!

 

[viscount17]

hello, Viper

 

[Leftie]

Hi stranger and welcome to the forum. It won't take long to become a journeyman.