Is golf too accessible for the idiotic minority???

[medwayjon]

I had an interesting conversation with somebody this morning. The subject of the 2 morons I had the misfortune to meet was bought up and discussed.

He commented that there are a select band of idiots at his club. Basically he feels that golf has become too cheap and too accessible hence more morons are getting into the game.

He said that it is that bad now that even people who are unable to use cultlery or write their own name can get membership to the club.

I know that our beloved sport is tarnished with an image of elitism and in some cases it is warranted. However I find that golf at certain levels is a free-for-all where anything goes.

I personally agree with the chap, I think it is too easy for a complete idiot to buy a set of clubs and trudge onto a course and ruin somebody elses day.

Is it wrong to think this way? Is it wrong to want our sport to remain one of honour, integrity and respectful behaviour?

What do you think?

 

[John_Findlay]

Is it wrong to think this way? Is it wrong to want our sport to remain one of honour, integrity and respectful behaviour?

No, Jon. You're spot on. But pricing people out of the game is the lazy political way of dealing with matters, it smacks of elitism and should be avoided at all costs.

Why don't we simply adopt the Dutch method where you have to hold, what is effectively, a golfing driver's licence? I think their golfers have to demonstrate that they know the etiquette of the game and can actually swing a club, having taken lessons.

 

[Dave3498]

Well, the two morons you met that day simply hadn't visited the clubhouse to pay their green fees, so handicap certificates or competency licences would not apply to them. They are basically thieves.

 

[birdieman]

15 or 20 years ago there were long waiting lists for membership of many private golf clubs, many using municipal courses. Nowadays that isn't the case so it appears the demand for traditional golf i.e. club membership has been replaced with 'pay and play' type people who can't justify paying memberships because they just don't have the time for much golf. These are the folks that don't take it as seriously as you and me and unfortunately because they haven't attained any experience of the do's and dont's of golf that us club members have had drilled into us and learned since our junior days they don't appreciate the gravitas of not obeying the rules of the game, slow play, talking and moving on the green, not raking bunkers etc etc.
Perhaps JF's idea of some kind of Dutch style golf etiquette and knowledge exam is needed, not sure.
I have played golf a long time and I can't recall meeting many like the two you described thankfully. The fact they didn't pay is really down to a starter or club employee picking this up, some kind of policing at least, no?

 

[geronimo]

must admit that is one of the most stupidest things i have herd!(the solution not the want of a way to eradicate the behaviour)

to say it is elitist is a nice way of saying it extortion is another.

Since when was bad attitudes exclusive to the less wealthy? People with more money tend to be in power in the work place and have a I'm the boss attitude and take that attitude where ever they go.

How are you supposed to get youngsters into the game when there folks cant afford to accompany them to the course?
How many tigers are never going to get the chance to play the game.

We should be making things easier for people to get into sport not harder, and the course should be self policing.

What happens when you are priced out of the game? Will your attitude to this cure change?

It is as simple as report the morons to the people in charge of the course and if the same name appears a few times then it is obvious the person is a problem on the course and can be dealt with.

The government want less cars on the road less people to smoke and people to drink less so under that pretence they up the price of cigs, petrol and alcohol do you agree that this is a good way to go, price people out, or as i think it is, its just smoke screen to get more tax out of you.

 

[HTL]

How could a municipal course be self policing?

If I was on my own I wouldn’t fancy telling of a group of youngsters off and asking them off the course and im a 16 stone ex rugby player, nor would it be my place.

I think the golf licence is an excellent idea, when i started I had to watch videos on youtube about how to repair ball marks etc.

 

[USER1999]

With or without a license, the issue here is policing it. Most courses (mine included) could do with a ranger, but view it as an un-necessary expense. In Florida you see the ranger about 4 times a round, and he monitors behaviour, speed of play, ability, etc. You can report the game in front if they are not maintaining standards of play.

What use is a license without a ranger to police things, and with a ranger, is it necessary?

 

[HTL]

How about a sniper hidden in the trees any litter dropped or a succession of crap shots in the rough taking eternity to find, that would sort the problem out!

The ranger does sound the ideal solution! Certainly gets my vote.

When joining a club do you have to play a round first? Or something similar to show your not some cowboy?

 

[birdieman]

At my club you have to get 2 members to sign your application form, that is the only vetting required.
If you are new to the area and don't know any members I'm not sure what you'd do, just make an effort to meet some golfers I suppose.

 

[geronimo]

How could a municipal course be self policing?

If I was on my own I wouldn’t fancy telling of a group of youngsters off and asking them off the course and im a 16 stone ex rugby player, nor would it be my place.

I think the golf licence is an excellent idea, when i started I had to watch videos on youtube about how to repair ball marks etc.

All courses have someone in charge and all in my area also have a club attached(thought this was the norm) so there are plenty people to report to.
I certainly did not mean go around challenging people on the course, simply report them and let the people in charge of the course deal with the cretins. They can simply say do not come back.

Put basic etiquette on the back of score card with the headline failure to comply will result with you being ejected from the course.
May be easier said than done.

 

[medwayjon]

Geronimo, I am not a wealthy man or indeed a snob as many who know me will tell you. I don't want golf to have an air of elitism surrounding it, I just love the game and don't want scum ruining golf or its highly regarded reputation as a sport.

I am not currently a club member, I just have total respect for the rules, etiquette, the course and my fellow golfers.

I am not saying that attitude is directly relative to ones means. Look at my "morons" post. These 2 were kitted out with top-end gear worth atleast £1500 each. I know many wealthy men who are what many would call scum.

I am afraid your notion of self-policing courses is way off the mark. If you want to go and tell 4 pikey boys off then that's upto you mate, I wouldn't and I am a pretty capable chap. HTL is thinking the same as me on this.

I am in total agreement with J_F about the golf license. It is a superb idea although potentially very arduous in its implementation.

HTL, A lot of clubs get you to play with the captain or a comittee member.

 

[geronimo]

Also about the licence, i suppose all on here would pass there driving licence again, as all who drive have one so are great drivers and would pass again no problem.

A licence does not make you good at something all it does is say you are allowed to do something.

 

[madandra]

At my old club which was situated in the heart of an estate where the cheapest houses go for £750,000 yet the streets look like a scene from 'SHAMELESS' with junk lying in their gardens and pavements. The worst golfers i.e. the great unwashed, lived in the estate. The problem is not a financial one, it is an educational problem. People nowadays have no standards when it comes to self discipline and think it is their god given right to abuse anyone or anything that crosses their path. I know a guy who would disolve if he went near soap and water yet, he is a member at Gleneagles.

British Standards have gone forever.

 

[HTL]

Yes but in the process of learning to drive you learn about letting over drivers out etc i.e. good course etiquette and manners. Something that none of us want to be forgotten!

 

[madandra]

Yes but in the process of learning to drive you learn about letting over drivers out etc i.e. good course etiquette and manners. Something that none of us want to be forgotten!

I agree but all too often once they get their licence they drive like kno8s. The same applies to golfers. When the powers that be can't see them, the true person comes out and not just the facade they want you to see.

 

[John_Findlay]

If you have a starter on a course then it should be their responsibility to police who gets let on.

Here's what I found on Wikipaedia about the Dutch Golf Licence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf_license

Would it work here? Don't know. I'm sure a few corporate knobs who only play once a year would be disappointed if they weren't allowed to get their game at Loch Lomond.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure the golf course would be a far politer place to be, especially on municipals.

Pricing is not the answer. Whenever the Government can't think of a proper solution to anything (because they're an unimaginative, brain-dead bunch of dunderheids) the solution is to add a tax. I'd like to think that golf's ruling bodies are a little brighter.

 

[viscount17]

British Standards have gone forever.

Most are EEC directives now.

The golf licence sounds a good idea but how do you police it? The only way would be for 'rangers' who would presumably be empowered to ask for it to be produced. None of us seem prepared to challenge a group (all equipped with 14 potential weapons), so we're talking about rangers going round in pairs.
Again, to make it work you have to control all points of entry to the course. These have to be manned by paid staff, and fencing every where else. Golf in a cage anyone?
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the yob element controlled, (two buggies and two cases of lager per four-ball under the guise of a 'society') but who wants to pay for it? There are several on this forum who would be forced out by the increased costs.
(Oh, and I was never taught golf etiquette, nor how to repair a pitch mark or to replace a divot before I played for the first time - at St Andrews)

 

[DCB]

Can I throw another possible cause into the melting pot?

The use of the two-for-one / greensaver type coupons has allowed a great number of players (used loosly) to play over courses where they may not have had the chance to play in times past. If the golf clubs are willing to accept these vouchers they are in effect creatinga group of golfers who have no real ties to a club, but will play as often as possible at any course they can.

I play an outing every summer where we have a couple of guys who play all over scotland on these vouchers. They have all the kit, the best of kit, both in the bag and on their backs but they don't have the normal social ettiquete that a club golfer usually has. Last August I played with one of these guys, a nice enough guy to play with, but it took forever to get through the first four holes. I told my mate we were upping the pace a bit as this was painfully slow. The voucher man wasn't happy with the faster pace, yet we still took 4.5 hrs to play a course that should have taken no more than 3.5 on the day.

Once in the clubhouse whilst having lunch, we had to ask for the language to be toned down by a couple of guys. Why ? Surely inside the clubhouse it would be only good manners not to be f ing and blinding all the time?

Anyway rant over.

 

[geronimo]

i feel the only viable way is self policing, and it can start with the courses.
All the municipal courses in my area have no dress code for the course, this is a wrong move for a start.
Dress like your out for a muck about and you might muck about on the other hand dress sensibly and you might start to act a bit more sensible.
On the back of the cards put the basic etiquette and sign in a course (with id shown) which in turn states you have read and understand the basic rules and if you break the rules you are accepting any ban ect that gets dealt out due to missbehaviour.

 

[birdieman]

DCB has just created 'Voucher Man' held in equally low regard as 'white van man' on the roads - i.e. no etiquette, swears a lot and doesn't play by the rules!

Going back to policing, many courses inform golfers that the greenkeepers out on the course may inspect tickets - never seen it happen though, I'm sure the greenkeepers have better things to do?