Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
Watch some videos of ladies comps.
Most of them are tiny, and won't weigh more than 56kg themselves, but they put it out there.
You will soon see it's not about muscle and strength, more about rhythm and timing.
Is distance embarrassing?
- Thread starter Nosevi
- Start date
Watch some videos of ladies comps.
Most of them are tiny, and won't weigh more than 56kg themselves, but they put it out there.
You will soon see it's not about muscle and strength, more about rhythm and timing.
Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
This ^^^^^^
I wish I had a £ for every time I've thought "why the hell didn't I just knock a 5 iron down there" after topping/pulling/blocking my 3 wood second shot on a par 5.
Nosevi
Head Pro
IMO Smiffy is spot on - it's more technique, rhythm and timing (and I'd add balance as essential aspect that ties it all together) rather than brute strength. I've worked hard on those and while my drives used to be maybe 240 yards total I now carry it about 275-280 and have a total hovering around 300. But that's not a thrash, that's a balanced swing - losing acuracy isn't about hitting it hard, it's about not being able to stay balanced while you do it.
Wasn't really going to be a 'how to' thread, more a slightly different way of looking at hitting it longer, but as a couple have asked I'll briefly show what I've worked on and how I've picked up so many yards off the tee. Not necessarily saying you'll be hitting it 300 yards Neil, but it will help to have an understanding of what you're trying to do.
at a mate's on my phone right now but will post up something later on
Retread61
Assistant Pro
IMO Smiffy is spot on - it's more technique, rhythm and timing (and I'd add balance as essential aspect that ties it all together) rather than brute strength. I've worked hard on those and while my drives used to be maybe 240 yards total I now carry it about 275-280 and have a total hovering around 300. But that's not a thrash, that's a balanced swing - losing acuracy isn't about hitting it hard, it's about not being able to stay balanced while you do it.
Wasn't really going to be a 'how to' thread, more a slightly different way of looking at hitting it longer, but as a couple have asked I'll briefly show what I've worked on and how I've picked up so many yards off the tee. Not necessarily saying you'll be hitting it 300 yards Neil, but it will help to have an understanding of what you're trying to do.
at a mate's on my phone right now but will post up something later on
Im not having a pop but there is a disconnect here with your description of your power etc and your kit. Project X 6.5 shafts are heavy and stiff! Some tour players go as far as 7.0 but not many. If you use these shafts then dude you hit it HARD. A "normal" swing speed or launch condition cannot make those shafts work.
NimbleNeil
Medal Winner
In the 3 GM mags I've picked up since starting I've read a lot about rhythm, timing, a smooth stroke that accelerates through the ball etc., but i'm struggling to translate this into physical changes I can make to my swing. I'll be getting some lessons with Xmas and birthday money no doubt.
Looking forwards to hearing what you have to say
Looking forwards to hearing what you have to say
Nosevi
Head Pro
Yep, Rory was on the Project X 6.5 a year ago and has now stepped up to the 7.0 - guess I'll have to spend more time in the gym to keep up with the wipper-snappers
Fitting took an age (2 months) as Ping had to get the heads made up in the States to fit the 6.5 Tour shafts, another story though.It's a fair comment to a point....... but I'm not suggesting Neil will make a few tweaks to his swing and be adding 130 yards to his drive over night and be badgering Ping like I had to, to get tour spec shafts. What I'm suggesting is that the way in which I have managed to generate quite a bit more power and distance could help those at the lower end of the scale to do likewise - not to be driving it over 300 yards but perhaps turning 190 max into a bit more. I'll see if I can explain below.
Nosevi
Head Pro
Right, this'll take a few posts so just bear with me.
Firstly, I believe that balance is absolutely crucial when gaining power and therefore driving distance. 9 times out of 10 it's not that someone can't or couldn't hit it any harder, it's that they can't hit it harder and stay in balance. That's partly about proprioception (being able to feel where your body is and your centre of gravity is during the swing) but also about keeping that centre of gravity relatively stable. In essence keeping your weight inside your stance and not letting it get outside it. I'll come back to this in a mo.
The other aspect is rhythm, timing and sequencing you swing from the ground up. It sounds pretty complicated but it really just means that you have a tiny shift (and I mean tiny) of your weight onto your front foot (one nearest the target) and your hips move, before the club starts down. I did a really simple drill to get this nailed where you do a back swing then push down on the ball of your front foot (put a coin under it if it helps) then swing the club down. Then a little back swing, push down and then swing. Just keep doing this for a while and your swing will get 'squenced'.
The other thing this does is stop you trying to snatch from the top. People do this because they are swinging totally with their arms. Do the step drill and you start to bring your body into the swing and there's a hell of a lot more power in your body than in your arms alone.
The swing also looks like you're not trying as hard because....... well you're not trying as hard. You're allowing the sequence of your swing (tiny weight shift, hips start to move, shoulders move, club moves) create the power. It's referred to as a kinetic chain and with each link power is added so by the time I swing my arms all the power of my weight transfer, hip turn, shoulders, is already in play and my arm swing is just adding to it.
You probably see it better with an iron. I hit my 8 iron about 155-160ish carry on a stock shot (up to 170 if I open it up but as many have said - why bother, just pull a more suitable club) and this is my swing with my 8 iron (work in progress so no pointing out all the other stuff I still need to work on - I know!! )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKrI2UsafVg&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
Firstly, I believe that balance is absolutely crucial when gaining power and therefore driving distance. 9 times out of 10 it's not that someone can't or couldn't hit it any harder, it's that they can't hit it harder and stay in balance. That's partly about proprioception (being able to feel where your body is and your centre of gravity is during the swing) but also about keeping that centre of gravity relatively stable. In essence keeping your weight inside your stance and not letting it get outside it. I'll come back to this in a mo.
The other aspect is rhythm, timing and sequencing you swing from the ground up. It sounds pretty complicated but it really just means that you have a tiny shift (and I mean tiny) of your weight onto your front foot (one nearest the target) and your hips move, before the club starts down. I did a really simple drill to get this nailed where you do a back swing then push down on the ball of your front foot (put a coin under it if it helps) then swing the club down. Then a little back swing, push down and then swing. Just keep doing this for a while and your swing will get 'squenced'.
The other thing this does is stop you trying to snatch from the top. People do this because they are swinging totally with their arms. Do the step drill and you start to bring your body into the swing and there's a hell of a lot more power in your body than in your arms alone.
The swing also looks like you're not trying as hard because....... well you're not trying as hard. You're allowing the sequence of your swing (tiny weight shift, hips start to move, shoulders move, club moves) create the power. It's referred to as a kinetic chain and with each link power is added so by the time I swing my arms all the power of my weight transfer, hip turn, shoulders, is already in play and my arm swing is just adding to it.
You probably see it better with an iron. I hit my 8 iron about 155-160ish carry on a stock shot (up to 170 if I open it up but as many have said - why bother, just pull a more suitable club) and this is my swing with my 8 iron (work in progress so no pointing out all the other stuff I still need to work on - I know!!
)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKrI2UsafVg&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
Nosevi
Head Pro
Going back to balance and being able to swing at the ball a tad, probably easiest to show with a practice swing I recorder the other day as you get an idea of the club head speed you can generate from the swish. As I said before, no I'm not saying everyone is going to step up and do this tomorrow but it shows what you can generate is you're a chubby (and balding it would seem - note to self don't have lights on so bright next time I video my swing!) 40 year old.
The point of this is not "Wow what club head speed I got!" it the fact that if you're in balance you can do it without your swing going to pot. Good 'check' is if you can't easily hold a posey finish at the end you're not not in balance.
You'll need the volume up to hear the swish, ignore the kids in the background, no idea what they were trashing at the time.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrikgGCQg9c&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
If you watch it a couple of times you can probably see it looks like there's a pause at the top. It's really the club that's pausing the most as the rest of the kinetic chain sets in motion with a bit of a weight shift (tiny) and the hips start moving etc) and then you 'shift through the gears' as I've seen it described, with the club head travelling quickly by the end.
The point of this is not "Wow what club head speed I got!" it the fact that if you're in balance you can do it without your swing going to pot. Good 'check' is if you can't easily hold a posey finish at the end you're not not in balance.
You'll need the volume up to hear the swish, ignore the kids in the background, no idea what they were trashing at the time.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrikgGCQg9c&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
If you watch it a couple of times you can probably see it looks like there's a pause at the top. It's really the club that's pausing the most as the rest of the kinetic chain sets in motion with a bit of a weight shift (tiny) and the hips start moving etc) and then you 'shift through the gears' as I've seen it described, with the club head travelling quickly by the end.
Nosevi
Head Pro
Looking at keeping the spin off the ball to get the max distance out of the shot (the slower the spin the further the ball goes) it's really tied in with balance and that's all tied in with keeping your centre of gravity or centre of mass stable. Looking at a freeze frame of the setup from the swing above I've drawn 2 lines next to my head and left hip....... which I guess you can see but wanted to point out that they are significant.....
If I now wind forwards to impact you can see a few things:
- My head is pretty much where it was at setup, I haven't get ahead of the ball
- My hips are ahead of my shoulders (more open) which are ahead of the club head, the kinetic chain is working in order
- Everything is driving up in the direction of the blue lines that takes off spin. I'm actually adding the power of my legs driving up to the ball as well - everything is working together.
Now contrast that with standing there, holding the club and swinging it with your arms, which will get the most power?
So yep, fair point before - I'm using a 'tour spec' shaft at the higher end of what some pros use, my G30 is set to 8 degrees of loft (but I get plenty of height on the shot as I drive upwards on the ball to take the spin off), I'm not saying that everyone is going to add this kind of distance tomorrow.
But what I am saying is if you stay balanced so you can 'swing within yourself' (ie not fall on your arse because you just thrashed at it), keep centred and hit up on the ball, your technique can give you more distance. It's not "willy waving" it's working hard on one aspect of the game in order to get better results given the physical aspects and kit you have to work with.
Just as an aside, I'm lucky as I have my own launch monitor to work on this stuff (GC2) but that's not to say you can't just do it with a camera phone and some time down the range and some drills. This gives an idea of the launch I get - plenty high enough even with slightly silly loft on the club. Obviously GC2 so zero wind, standard atmosphere and calibrated for a ProV1 which is what I'm hitting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLgs9PZSnhQ&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72ARlsYv7pA&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNVXH5FCGYU&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k34XEV4wEko&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
Hope it's been of a little use to members out there and as I said, anyone near Lincoln wants to come and see if they can tweak their swing a tad on the launch monitor give me a shout. Bobmac is over tomorrow - will be on best behaviour, he gave me my first ever lesson
If I now wind forwards to impact you can see a few things:
- My head is pretty much where it was at setup, I haven't get ahead of the ball
- My hips are ahead of my shoulders (more open) which are ahead of the club head, the kinetic chain is working in order
- Everything is driving up in the direction of the blue lines that takes off spin. I'm actually adding the power of my legs driving up to the ball as well - everything is working together.
Now contrast that with standing there, holding the club and swinging it with your arms, which will get the most power?
So yep, fair point before - I'm using a 'tour spec' shaft at the higher end of what some pros use, my G30 is set to 8 degrees of loft (but I get plenty of height on the shot as I drive upwards on the ball to take the spin off), I'm not saying that everyone is going to add this kind of distance tomorrow.
But what I am saying is if you stay balanced so you can 'swing within yourself' (ie not fall on your arse because you just thrashed at it), keep centred and hit up on the ball, your technique can give you more distance. It's not "willy waving" it's working hard on one aspect of the game in order to get better results given the physical aspects and kit you have to work with.
Just as an aside, I'm lucky as I have my own launch monitor to work on this stuff (GC2) but that's not to say you can't just do it with a camera phone and some time down the range and some drills. This gives an idea of the launch I get - plenty high enough even with slightly silly loft on the club. Obviously GC2 so zero wind, standard atmosphere and calibrated for a ProV1 which is what I'm hitting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLgs9PZSnhQ&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72ARlsYv7pA&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNVXH5FCGYU&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k34XEV4wEko&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
Hope it's been of a little use to members out there and as I said, anyone near Lincoln wants to come and see if they can tweak their swing a tad on the launch monitor give me a shout. Bobmac is over tomorrow - will be on best behaviour, he gave me my first ever lesson
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JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Is the right answer. Add in a h/cap and the length (or lack of it) is factored into the h/cap they have.
Add yards to any player and their h/cap will drop. Is it easy to do? Is it hell, people don't like to change, they'd rather just buy a new club that they perceive to go further.
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
Looking at keeping the spin off the ball to get the max distance out of the shot (the slower the spin the further the ball goes) it's really tied in with balance and that's all tied in with keeping your centre of gravity or centre of mass stable. Looking at a freeze frame of the setup from the swing above I've drawn 2 lines next to my head and left hip....... which I guess you can see but wanted to point out that they are significant.....
View attachment 12896
:
If I now wind forwards to impact you can see a few things:
- My head is pretty much where it was at setup, I haven't get ahead of the ball
- My hips are ahead of my shoulders (more open) which are ahead of the club head, the kinetic chain is working in order
- Everything is driving up in the direction of the blue lines that takes off spin. I'm actually adding the power of my legs driving up to the ball as well - everything is working together.
View attachment 12897
Now contrast that with standing there, holding the club and swinging it with your arms, which will get the most power?
So yep, fair point before - I'm using a 'tour spec' shaft at the higher end of what some pros use, my G30 is set to 8 degrees of loft (but I get plenty of height on the shot as I drive upwards on the ball to take the spin off), I'm not saying that everyone is going to add this kind of distance tomorrow.
But what I am saying is if you stay balanced so you can 'swing within yourself' (ie not fall on your arse because you just thrashed at it), keep centred and hit up on the ball, your technique can give you more distance. It's not "willy waving" it's working hard on one aspect of the game in order to get better results given the physical aspects and kit you have to work with.
Just as an aside, I'm lucky as I have my own launch monitor to work on this stuff (GC2) but that's not to say you can't just do it with a camera phone and some time down the range and some drills. This gives an idea of the launch I get - plenty high enough even with slightly silly loft on the club. Obviously GC2 so zero wind, standard atmosphere and calibrated for a ProV1 which is what I'm hitting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLgs9PZSnhQ&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72ARlsYv7pA&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNVXH5FCGYU&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k34XEV4wEko&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA
Hope it's been of a little use to members out there and as I said, anyone near Lincoln wants to come and see if they can tweak their swing a tad on the launch monitor give me a shout. Bobmac is over tomorrow - will be on best behaviour, he gave me my first ever lesson
Cool. What kind of numbers are you generating? Launch angle, spin, club head speed etc. lovely flight on those drives. :thup
Nosevi
Head Pro
But isn't that a tiny bit like saying "getting a bit more length is also only important for anyone wanting to be better at golf." After all - the aim of the game is getting the ball in the hole in the fewest shots possible, it's not winning because you have a higher handicap........ at least I don't think it is, is it?!?!
Nosevi
Head Pro
I launch it at about 14 degrees so a few degrees upward strike (8 degree driver). Spin is normally a 2000 rpm or a tad below at times, and ball speed gets up to a shade over 160mph on a very good strike. My launch monitor currently only gives ball speed, need an add on (hmt)for club head speed - one day .........
a good few yards of the flight are the far side of the peak height - by getting the spin down you get a neutral flight rather than the ball 'stalling' more if the spin is higher.
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This ^^^^^^
I wish I had a £ for every time I've thought "why the hell didn't I just knock a 5 iron down there" after topping/pulling/blocking my 3 wood second shot on a par 5.
I thought your earlier and longer description about seniors just nobbling it around with stellar short game and putting was spot on and you walk off the 18th and add their score to see it's done you easily. I can't understand the OP still banging on about this and for a vast majority of us on here we're never going to get the extra distance (or accuracy) he seems adamant we all need.
Nosevi
Head Pro
I'm not banging on
I'm answering those who asked how you get more distance. And I'm not saying you need it, feel free to utterly ignore all of the above. I'm saying that for those who want it, a bit more distance is there - they just need to learn how to access it.Seems like a moderately sensible thing to talk about on a golf forum I thought
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bluewolf
Money List Winner
He's banging on because he's right Homie. 2 exactly equal players, but one is 2 clubs longer on average. Who's better?
I'm not banging on
And many on here are older golfer and less flexible. Many clubs have seniors as Smiffy pointed out who are more than capable of scoring close to handicap regularly. Many don't have the time or inclination to learn new techniques and I'm just saying for most handicap golfers accuracy off the tee and a sharper short game would produce equally valid and productive results. It's not all about distance and I just think you're approaching it from the wrong way. If I was learning again, I'd go with what was posted by Bob (very respected pro on here) and start with putting and chipping and work up to the longer clubs once I'd learned the full swing with shorter clubs and could control them better.
bluewolf
Money List Winner
you are still learning Homer. You take regular lessons. If that is your belief, then are you following it? And if you are, how is it working for you?
Lump
Tour Winner
The player hitting shorter clubs into greens. ALL DAY LONG!
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
The shorter hitter is the better player, the longer hitter is just lucky he's long
