D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
If one was shooting lower scores, they wouldn't be equal
If they are shooting the same scores then neither is better
Is distance embarrassing?
- Thread starter Nosevi
- Start date
If they are shooting the same scores then neither is better
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
But for me the better player will be the one who finds the green and then makes the putts etc
If they are both making the green and making the putts then as overall players they are equal with one being better of the tee.
But obviously if the longer hitter takes advantage of his extra length and hits his second closer to the pin and scores more birdies etc then he is the better player
Distance is a good weapon in golf - you can give yourself a better chance by hitting it further
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
He just said the same thing. Lessons and ''understand your numbers'. By this he means exactly what nosevi is saying. Changing you launch and spin.
bluewolf
Money List Winner
If one was shooting lower scores, they wouldn't be equal
Yes they would.. Equal in ability. Equally accurate. Equal shortgame, but one was longer.. Who scores better? It's not a trick question.. It would be the same answer if they were both equal, but one was a better putter... Who would shoot better scores..
Anyway, the argument is getting ridiculous. How anyone can possibly state that adding distance, without losing accuracy is not a good way to reduce your scores is beyond me. Short game and Long game improvement are not mutually exclusive. You don't have to sacrifice one for the other..
But despite lessons, changes in technology, the average golfer is just three yards longer according to the R&A. I understand changing launch conditions improve distance but how come there's such a small increase, despite more golfers hitting driver according to the R&A survey. Not all of the golfers and I'm assuming it's a poll across all abilities will have had lessons but many will. I just think the survey proves that for many it's not necessarily as easy as perhaps suggested
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
This is how you test the equal golfer paradox.
Play 9 holes. With a second ball, put it 20 yards ahead of your tee shot and see who wins. Your first ball or your +20yard ball.
G
guest100718
Guest
hats off to the chap that said it was a fishing trip - maybe I overstated the case a tad but that was to prompt discussion.
Here's a fact though - long hitting doesn't hurt you. A lack of accuracy might but long hitting doesn't.
There are several ball flight models out there but all are pretty similar these days. Taking this one: http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/
and plug in a launch speed of say 130mph (pretty low in truth), trajectory of 14 degrees and spin of about 4000rpm which is not an unusual number to see on a short driver. It'll give you a drive of about 220 or just under yards. Now leave the ball speed and trajectory the same but drop the spin to 2000rpm - there's your 20 yards. Most short hitters would gain that by slightly changing their technique (being more centred, maintaining spine tilt etc) yet not hitting the ball any harder.
Knowing what you know about golf, if you hit the ball with the same force but with less overall spin, will it hold its line more or go off line more, especially into wind?
Using the tech that's now available you can do things like getting more distance with no more effort while hitting the ball in such a way that it holds its line better. You just need to know how to use it.
There's a youtube from mark crossfield that says pretty much this. He shows how just a few tweeks can add 20+ yds to a drive
G
guest100718
Guest
Length combined with accuracy is what you need. The closer you are to the flag for your 2nd shot, the easier it is to get it close.
Nosevi
Head Pro
Ah yes, but the 'average golfer' has not yet read this thread
Joking of course. But on Mark Crossfield's video (I subscribe to his channel as it happens) he says about changing things like - if they can just change small things like hitting up on the ball by 2 degrees the average golfer would pick up yardage. That's to reduce the spin and you do that by not getting ahead of the ball. That's kind of what I was getting at, obviously a pro should be able to help you do this.
just out of interest, looking at my driver swing before I was taught or knew anything about balance or the kinetic chain or timing or..... Well any of that stuff really you should be able to see a difference. I was actually fitter then as I had a serious knee injury between the two but hopefully people can see that with basically the same (or similar) physical assets you can make a bit of a difference in this area if you want to. (Anyone points out I've lost my hair a bit since then, I know - kids!)
Then (bit like Bambi on ice really)
http://youtu.be/G-szGxx5yJo
Now, the vid I posted before
http://youtu.be/UrikgGCQg9c
I know it's been said it's not easy to make that degree of a change, but just a bit of it would help. Guessing I was about 220 off the tee at the time of the first vid.
tsped83
Tour Winner
Ah yes, but the 'average golfer' has not yet read this thread
Joking of course. But on Mark Crossfield's video (I subscribe to his channel as it happens) he says about changing things like - if they can just change small things like hitting up on the ball by 2 degrees the average golfer would pick up yardage. That's to reduce the spin and you do that by not getting ahead of the ball. That's kind of what I was getting at, obviously a pro should be able to help you do this.
just out of interest, looking at my driver swing before I was taught or knew anything about balance or the kinetic chain or timing or..... Well any of that stuff really you should be able to see a difference. I was actually fitter then as I had a serious knee injury between the two but hopefully people can see that with basically the same (or similar) physical assets you can make a bit of a difference in this area if you want to. (Anyone points out I've lost my hair a bit since then, I know - kids!)
Then (bit like Bambi on ice really)
http://youtu.be/G-szGxx5yJo
Now, the vid I posted before
http://youtu.be/UrikgGCQg9c
I know it's been said it's not easy to make that degree of a change, but just a bit of it would help. Guessing I was about 220 off the tee at the time of the first vid.
Sorry, that first video cracks me up. Were you out jogging by a farmers field with your driver? Then decided to film an impromptu swing video without a ball? Eh? Sorry, it's tickled me. Do carry on!
Swings looks good to me though.
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
Nosevi, out of curiosity, did you come to your choice of shaft by trial and error or were you fitted?
I know you're long by handicap golfer standards, but I've seen Luke Donald say he hits his 8 iron around 156-158 and he plays S300.
I know you're long by handicap golfer standards, but I've seen Luke Donald say he hits his 8 iron around 156-158 and he plays S300.
Toad
Tour Rookie
Nosevi, agree with the simple changes making a massive difference. I had a lesson where we focused only on the driver, had an issue with casting and had a major out to in swing path. Result was a maximum 250y drive with a fade, made the adjustments the pro recommended and despite the swing speed dropping a little I was getting them out to 280Y with the longest being 289y. Think I still have the video of the lesson and will stick it up if I find it.
I now drive 20-30 yards longer than before and it is not all about the power, I have a more controlled swing and definitely feel I am more balanced.
With the added distance and accuracy that came with it I have slashed 3 shots off my handicap so far.
I now drive 20-30 yards longer than before and it is not all about the power, I have a more controlled swing and definitely feel I am more balanced.
With the added distance and accuracy that came with it I have slashed 3 shots off my handicap so far.
Nosevi
Head Pro
lol. No, had forgotten I had it tbh but remember how it came about. I was at work and was on my way home. I knew when I got there I would be presented with a crying child as my wife had been stuck inside with him all day. It didn't appeal so I stopped in a layby and practiced my golf swing for an hour or so. Still ashamed of myself if I'm honest......
Little bit trial an error in that my pro got a selection of shafts and we tried them on my own launch monitor. He's a fan of the project X shafts so we tried some and stepped it up until we got the best launch. With shafts it's not just the swing speed you look at but also the swing length. I hit it reasonably hard but off quite a short swing compared to someone like Luke Donald. As a result there's a sharper acceleration so you generally need a stiffer shaft.
Nosevi
Head Pro
Interesting to hear. For me it does seem to stem around being more balanced and controlled. You can see in that first vid I'm all over the place balance and centre of gravity wise. It makes a difference, at least it does for me.
bobmac
Major Champion
If someone comes to me for a lesson, they decide what the lesson is going to be about.
Cure a slice/hook/duff/top etc
But if someone wants a series of lessons on the WHOLE game, I would break it down into 6 sessions starting with putting.
1.Putting
Check grip, posture, aim, ball position, stroke etc
2. Chipping
all the above plus club selection and note how the wrists still dont hinge
3. Pitching
All the above but note the wrists start to hinge
4.
Bunker shots
All the above and note the swing getting longer
5. Fairway shots
All the above and note the swing getting longer
6. Driving
All the above and note changing the ball position forward for the contact with the up swing.
So you see how each lesson is linked to the previous one, gradually building up the swing
Starting with a small, no wrist action then gradually increasing the hinge and length of the swing to eventually the driver
From working back from the green to the tee makes more sense to me than doing it the other way round.
It's often described as 'REVERSE CHAINING'
Hope that helps
Cure a slice/hook/duff/top etc
But if someone wants a series of lessons on the WHOLE game, I would break it down into 6 sessions starting with putting.
1.Putting
Check grip, posture, aim, ball position, stroke etc
2. Chipping
all the above plus club selection and note how the wrists still dont hinge
3. Pitching
All the above but note the wrists start to hinge
4.
Bunker shots
All the above and note the swing getting longer
5. Fairway shots
All the above and note the swing getting longer
6. Driving
All the above and note changing the ball position forward for the contact with the up swing.
So you see how each lesson is linked to the previous one, gradually building up the swing
Starting with a small, no wrist action then gradually increasing the hinge and length of the swing to eventually the driver
From working back from the green to the tee makes more sense to me than doing it the other way round.
It's often described as 'REVERSE CHAINING'
Hope that helps
Nosevi
Head Pro
Does make a lot of sense. With me I was having a lot of trouble pitching - (still not my strong suit, tips later? ) I just couldn't get the contact I wanted so length was very variable. I spent quite a bit of time getting it sorted out a bit and the surprising thing (or perhaps not....) was when I went back to the full swing the ball was being struck more cleanly, it was going a bit lower, a bit further and a bit more consistantly. The work I did on pitching carried over imediately into the full swing.
) I just couldn't get the contact I wanted so length was very variable. I spent quite a bit of time getting it sorted out a bit and the surprising thing (or perhaps not....) was when I went back to the full swing the ball was being struck more cleanly, it was going a bit lower, a bit further and a bit more consistantly. The work I did on pitching carried over imediately into the full swing.
Nosevi
Head Pro
Had a great time with Bobmac on my launch monitor/sim setup today - think it's fair to say he liked it. Yardages were spot on what he hits each club he said which is what I expected. Be interesting to hear his thoughts (as someone who really knows what they're talking about rather than my ramblings) as to how I get the distance off the tee that I do. Also interesting that I could hit it straight with a longer hit but trying to back off just made me steer the ball and it took me a few shots to get the hang of it, even then I was far happier hitting it full length.
Will let him explain in 'pro speak' if he gets a chance but think it's fair to say it's not because I thrash at the ball, in fact I feel like I swing quite slowly from the top but accelerate all the way through the downswing. There's not actually a point in the swing where I try to hit the ball hard, it's just a gradual acceleration from the top.......
Anyway, if he has the time I'll see if he can explain it.
And if he ever asks you to try to hit his 1 iron I'd say no thanks if I were you. ****** silly club
Will let him explain in 'pro speak' if he gets a chance but think it's fair to say it's not because I thrash at the ball, in fact I feel like I swing quite slowly from the top but accelerate all the way through the downswing. There's not actually a point in the swing where I try to hit the ball hard, it's just a gradual acceleration from the top.......
Anyway, if he has the time I'll see if he can explain it.
And if he ever asks you to try to hit his 1 iron I'd say no thanks if I were you. ****** silly club
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
If I want to see someone hit the ball well I just watch Els swing the club.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Was actually looking for a launch monitor thread but stumbled across a bunch of threads about driving distances for some reason. I'm new to the forum but on all of those threads it seemed like people were falling over themselves to say how short they were off the tee (ok, slightly overstating it, perhaps to prompt discussion....) whereas just about every other golf forum I've seen, guys lie blatantly about their driving distance. What gives?
I've worked hard over the last year on picking up a few yards off the tee. IMO it's a fundamental requirement for playing golf at a higher level these days. In fact that's not just my opinion, my coach who teaches guys up to and including national and tour level tells me it is. Faced with a 450 yard par 4, what's your plan if you drive the ball 220? Even my home course has a par 4 that long off the whites and a few others close to it, championship courses it's fairly standard to have numerous holes that long these days. Even on a shorter, slightly more reasonable hole, could a short hitter routinely put his 5 iron closer than a long hitter's PW? I'm guessing not. Whether guys like it or not golf has changed and distance IS important. I'd go as far as to say it's vital in order to play the game at a higher level than the monthly medal at a shortish track.
Getting distance is largely about balance and rhythm, anyone driving the ball short (with modern equipment) could, and maybe should, be getting a lot more distance. Anyone who's met me will vouch that it clearly isn't about physique! I honestly and truthfully could not hit the ball 200-210 yards with my driver if you paid me, physically couldn't do it. The laziest swing I could possibly put on it, it would go further. Hitting a drive a long way is about spin, launch angle and ball speed, probably in that order. If you're a short hitter I guarantee it's the first one where you're getting it wrong.
Being long off the tee isn't about willy-waving or macho-man stuff. It's about having a technique that allows you to maximise the distance you get given the physical attributes you have. Accuracy (or loss of it) has nothing to do with it - last time out with my old man I hit all but one fairway and out drove him by about 50 yards every time....... and one of these days I may even consider telling him how
The point is it's about technique not muscle. I have an indoor launch monitor and I guarantee if someone who is properly short off the tee came and used it I could add 20 yards if not more to their drive with no loss of accuracy. I'm not a pro, I just know how these things work. In fact, that's an open offer if any member wants to take me up on it - I live near Lincoln.
So, driving distance - only not important if you happen to be a short hitter or actually not important in the modern game of golf?
So.......what exactly are you saying?
Nosevi
Head Pro
Couldn't agree more, not exactly an uncontrolled thrash at the ball, is it? All the time in the world, smooth acceleration and the ball flies miles. If I could have any swing on the planet it would be his, with Couples a close second. Both big hitters, neither look like they're trying to be.
