Irrefutable evidence?

[JustOne]

Then changed back to the new grip and really concentrated on maintaining the same grip throughout the swing, hey presto! it starts straight and then draws left!

That sounds like a pull to me. If you're swinging from out-to-in that is what you'll get. As a fader the chances are that this is what's happening.

The ONLY way to hit a draw is by swinging ever so slightly in-to-out across the target line, with the clubface pointing right at the target at impact, thus imparting overspin.

Draw: The ball starts slightly right of the target and returns to the target line as it drops.
Pull: The ball starts straight and moves left of the target line.

To find out exactly what is going on try putting a club down exactly parallel to the target line, hit a few and see what happens. If we can establish that you are lined up perfectly square then it's easier to figure out what is going on, if that makes sense

regards...

 

[bobmac]

Wherediditgo, if you are now hitting fairways with the grip your pro showed you, please ignore the last post by JustoneUK.
Just go out and enjoy it.

 

[Whereditgo]

I did check my alignment and seem to be pretty square at set-up - I guess its a 'work in progress' lol

I am still fairly new to the sport, so I am keen to develope with the right grip etc from the outset while nothing is too ingrained yet

Going to the range again tonight and I will try to get a clip of the swing.

The acid test will be when I get back on the course, playing a round tomorrow evening then first ever competition on Friday and playing with the club Captain and the Handicap Committee on Saturday! - so no pressure then!

 

[bobmac]

I strongly believe if you start thinking about the swing too much, you start to lose everything.
As long as you keep hitting those fairways, be happy and dont try to work out why and how you are doing it. Just enjoy it.
I like watching tv but I have no interest in how it works.
Please try not to meddle with the swing before your games this week and then afterwards if you want to analyse it a bit more then by all means, film it and post it here.
I look foward to seeing it.
Oh and by the way, just in case you got confused...a pull starts left and continues in a straight line left.
Good luck with your games this week

 

[JustOne]

Wherediditgo, if you are now hitting fairways with the grip your pro showed you, please ignore the last post by JustoneUK.
Just go out and enjoy it.

Yeh, just ignore it - I have a tendancy to want to improve golfers swings which means that they need to make several subtle changes to their swing to get better.

Bob likes to have out plasters and patch swings from fades into pulls - as long as you're scraping it onto the edge of the fairway then apparently that's good enough for Bobmac..... so go and enjoy it... if you can

Bottom line - if you're going to pull it ...it's going to go left.

Hope this helps.

 

[Whereditgo]

I won't be meddling with anything between now and the weekend, however, if things do start doing a Mrs Thatcher (going far right) I will check the grip first!

I do understand that a slice and a hook can be caused by the exact same swing path, I am an engineer, so manage to grasp most of the theories discussed on the forum. Wouldn't you say a draw or fade is about the flight of the ball irrespective of where it starts and ends up?

I do like to try to figure out what the causes of consistent errors are but also realise that the comments on here are based purely on my written interpretation of what might be the problem, so I guess it is inevitable that there will be a differing views on the corrective action to be taken.

Any and all views are read with interest and I am certainly appreciative of all the input from the forum members

Thanks Bob for your comments regarding the weekend - really looking forward to it all

 

[bobmac]

Ok. Here is how I teach.
I ask questions as all good pros do.
I then base my lesson on the answers I get to those questions.
This may result in me rebuilding one pupils swing, tweaking another swing or leaving the swing alone and changing the aim and grip.
If a scratch golfer came to me who aimed everything 10 yards to the right and hit a 10 yard pull, would I 'fix' that.......of course not.
There are more than one way to play this game well and its the skill of the teacher to get the best out of what the player can expect to achieve with the amount of work the player is willing to put in.
Wherediditgo had a problem with a huge slice.
Billy spotted the problem and changed the huge slice into a slight draw with his 'plaster'.
Wherediditgo is now hitting it longer, straighter and on the fairway which will stand him in good stead for his next few important games.
Now, if he came to me and said, lets fix this properly, I would need to change
1. Aim
2. Grip
3. Swing path
4. swing plane
5. Impact position
and check
1. ball position
2. posture
3. weight transfer
4. right knee
5. right toe
etc etc etc
Tough to do for anyone.
Not everyone wants to swing it perfectly, they just want to get it round in as low a score as possible.
A good teacher is able to make someone a better golfer without changing the swing at all.
As all golfers are different, a good teacher will know how to adapt his/her teaching to suit each type whether it be a full rebuild, a tweak of the swing or a plaster.
All the tips I have given in this forum have been well thought through and I believe have been the best advice I could give with the information available.
If people care to listen and find my advice useful then I am happy.
Wherediditgo, after you've had your game with the Captain, I would suggest you go and see your pro again and discuss with him what has happened and get his expert opinion. After all, he is the only one who has seen your swing
Good luck

 

[Leftie]

V-well said Bob.

 

[JustOne]

I do understand that a slice and a hook can be caused by the exact same swing path,

This isn't so, and it's a pain in the a$$ to explain in 2 minutes typing... but here goes

A slice starts off left of the target (then swings off to the right of the target line) and a hook to the right (swinging left of the target) in order for you to do this you must have swung on a different swing path. Therefore it's impossible to hit a right to left draw/hook/block if you start the ball out to the left. If the ball starts left even by 1mm and goes futher left, you've basically pulled it - to one degree or another.

If for example you hit one pretty straight and it bananas off to the right it isn't a slice... because as we established already a slice starts off to the left of the target, it is a block. Likewise if you thrash one off the tee and it pretty much heads for the trees on the right of the fairway like a banana you haven't hit a slice, you've blocked it with an open clubface...or (in other words) cut across it whilst coming from the inside.

So...... the only way you can hit a draw is by swinging fractionally from the inside with the clubface SQUARE, anything open would be a block and anything closed would be a pull.

Here's the tricky part.....
The shot you described started pretty straight and went left, if it didn't start to the right then you've basically pulled it (it's a marginal one often referred to as a pulldraw) eg: you tried to draw it but pulled it a touch.
Now this would be going on the premise that you said you line up pretty straight.

OK, so let's now assume that you actually lined up (feet, hips, shoulders etc) aiming a few yards left of your target, you didn't realise that you weren't quite square......

The ball flying off apparently straight at the flag was ACTUALLY heading off slightly to the right of where you were lined up and then DRAWING nicely back to the target line where you were aimed, a few yards left - the perfect draw.

So, the only question would be...Where were you aimed exactly?

Imagine the perfect scenario - a robot is playing golf...alignment to the target line is perfect, feet, hips, shoulders, clubface, even the swing plane are all perfectly square... the club comes into the ball perfectly straight...this would result in a perfectly straight shot. If the clubface is 1 degree open at impact it's blocked, and would go to the right if it's 1 degree closed it's pulled and would go to the left, neither would be a hook or a slice as both would be heading away from the target line.

In summary: Even though you might think a banana to the right is a slice and a banana to the left is a hook it is IMPOSSIBLE to hit a hook, block or draw if you are swinging the club from the ouside and IMPOSSIBLE to hit a slice, pull, fade if you swing from the inside.

I do like to try to figure out what the causes of consistent errors are but also realise that the comments on here are based purely on my written interpretation of what might be the problem, so I guess it is inevitable that there will be a differing views on the corrective action to be taken.

EXACTLY, without seeing the shot itself it's purely an educated guess according to the information at hand. Shots, swing planes, alignment, ball flight etc are a pain unless you actually witness them - which ain't so easy on an internet forum

I won't be meddling with anything between now and the weekend, however, if things do start doing a Mrs Thatcher (going far right) I will check the grip first!

In my opinion the key is not to swing too far from the outside, and not too far from the inside ... with the club face as square as possible at impact - Simples! hehe

regards...

Added: Here's a video for you about hitting a draw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT7On1SmIvE
It goes off to the right and 'draws back in' to the target, not straight and goes left.