Iran admit downing civilian airliner

[gmc40]

Iran has been ignoring it for sometime.

Have they? A quick google shows that the independent body tasked with monitoring their compliance with the deal said in April this year that they were complying. Despite this, the US decided to impose further sanctions and pull out of the deal. Do you think they were using similar “intelligence” to what you referred to earlier in this thread?

 

[drdel]

Have they? A quick google shows that the independent body tasked with monitoring their compliance with the deal said in April this year that they were complying. Despite this, the US decided to impose further sanctions and pull out of the deal. Do you think they were using similar “intelligence” to what you referred to earlier in this thread?

Let's face it any information/intelligence that's contrary to the "USA" is bad philosophy will be rubbished. I'm happy with my assertions so I'm not interested in doing any tit for tat gaming.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Let's face it any information/intelligence that's contrary to the "USA" is bad philosophy will be rubbished. I'm happy with my assertions so I'm not interested in doing any tit for tat gaming.

Your initial statement was quite definitive and seemed a factual statement ? so how have Iran been ignoring the treaty

 

[Tashyboy]

The list was published by AIPAC; the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. You can read the mission statement here;

https://www.aipac.org

Not sure you're going to get a balanced view on anything related to Iran from there, but if you choose to take it as gospel that's entirely your choice.

So just to clarify, the information you requested that happened, coz it’s AIPAC, it never happened ?

 

[gmc40]

Let's face it any information/intelligence that's contrary to the "USA" is bad philosophy will be rubbished. I'm happy with my assertions so I'm not interested in doing any tit for tat gaming.

You can be happy all you want, it doesn’t make anything you say correct. You are placing trust in an administration that repeatedly lies.

And just to be clear, I don’t have an issue with the “USA”, I have an issue with the Trump administration.

Did you read the HuffPost link I shared? Or the Washington Post article on the same subject? What sort of “Intelligence” is so top secret that it can’t be shared with members of Congress, including the GOP but is then shared with a Fox News reporter?

Answer: the type of intelligence that doesn’t exist and is being made up as they go along.

 

[drdel]

You can be happy all you want, it doesn’t make anything you say correct. You are placing trust in an administration that repeatedly lies.

And just to be clear, I don’t have an issue with the “USA”, I have an issue with the Trump administration.

Did you read the HuffPost link I shared? Or the Washington Post article on the same subject? What sort of “Intelligence” is so top secret that it can’t be shared with members of Congress, including the GOP but is then shared with a Fox News reporter?

Answer: the type of intelligence that doesn’t exist and is being made up as they go along.

Secret is anything that you think might influence or pertain to your future ops. in the defined time frame. 'Congress' is as leaky as HoC which is obviously why such material in UK is kept inside Cabinet; and even they can't seem to keep a secret !!

OK I'll give you a think tank - "Council on Foreign Relations"; which you can also now rubbish. Apart from Trump the US Secretary of State asserts/believes a number of planned actions were imminent and I see today Reuters are reporting Iranian strikes on the Balad Airbase. I guess that's also rubbish.

I'm no fan of Trump but its perhaps worth remembering that the specific General was well known for orchestrating planning proxy incursions against USA 'assets' and was constantly monitored/targeted but he was 'pardoned' by Obama and the 'tracking' stopped.

I guess this stuff is best under the 'Trump' thread ?

 

[gmc40]

Secret is anything that you think might influence or pertain to your future ops. in the defined time frame. 'Congress' is as leaky as HoC which is obviously why such material in UK is kept inside Cabinet; and even they can't seem to keep a secret !!

OK I'll give you a think tank - "Council on Foreign Relations"; which you can also now rubbish. Apart from Trump the US Secretary of State asserts/believes a number of planned actions were imminent and I see today Reuters are reporting Iranian strikes on the Balad Airbase. I guess that's also rubbish.

I'm no fan of Trump but its perhaps worth remembering that the specific General was well known for orchestrating planning proxy incursions against USA 'assets' and was constantly monitored/targeted but he was 'pardoned' by Obama and the 'tracking' stopped.

I guess this stuff is best under the 'Trump' thread ?

Yeah that makes sense. Keep it from Congress, even in the post event briefing (to prevent leaks) but then share it the next day with Fox News.

Not sure why you’ve tried to reinforce your argument using Pompeo as back up? He’s as guilty as Trump.

Re: the attacks today, not sure what they have to do with the original reasons for the assassination? They are a consequence of the killing, not the justification.

Re: the justification, some further reading for you;

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e1b2901c5b650c621e02da8

 

[Blue in Munich]

Try looking at the events. Please feel free to show these events are untrue.

I didn't say the events were untrue, but a US/Israeli organisation saying Iran was responsible doesn't necessarily make that aspect of it true.

where exactly has anyone said a US/ Israeli organisation, apart from you. I didn’t, and socket rocket did post a list of events, with a fair few missing. You asked for proof, which you got, now the source is questioned. But you already knew here events had happened.

The list was published by AIPAC; the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. You can read the mission statement here;

https://www.aipac.org

Not sure you're going to get a balanced view on anything related to Iran from there, but if you choose to take it as gospel that's entirely your choice.

So just to clarify, the information you requested that happened, coz it’s AIPAC, it never happened ?

Firstly you've accused me of making up the fact that the list SocketRocket posted up was from an US/Israel organisation when clearly it was, as has been pointed out to you. Then you state that I've been given proof; of the events yes, but not of responsibility. Now you accuse me of saying the events didn't happen, when I clearly haven't. If you look on Google to enlighten yourself, as you suggested I did, you'll find differing opinions about who is responsible for the acts on the list.

Take the 9/11 attacks, about which AIPAC state; Iran knowingly permitted members of al-Qaida, including several of the 9/11 hijackers, to transit Iranian territory on their way to Afghanistan for training.

AP have a different view; THE FACTS: Pence misleadingly ties Soleimani to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on New York City’s World Trade Center. There is no evidence that Iran directly supported the 9/11 hijackers, many of them Saudi members of the al-Qaida terrorist group, nor are there any known reports that Soleimani was involved in assisting with their travel to Afghanistan. First of all, there were 19 hijackers on 9/11, not 12. Pence spokeswoman Katie Waldman later clarified in a tweet that Pence was referring to those hijackers who traveled to Afghanistan through Iran before the attacks. It’s true that Iran allowed al-Qaida operatives to pass through its borders from Saudi Arabia to Afghanistan without receiving stamps in their passports or with visas obtained at its consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, according to a 19-page, unsigned report found among Osama bin Laden’s personnel effects in the Abbottabad, Pakistan, raid. Fifteen of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, one from Egypt, and one from Lebanon. That is consistent with the 9/11 Commission’s report, which found that some of the Sept. 11 hijackers -- possibly eight -- passed through Iran. However, nowhere does the commission’s report mention Soleimani, let alone indicate he was behind the lax travel practices that allowed al-Qaida operatives through. The commission, in particular, “found no evidence that Iran or Hezbollah was aware of the planning for what later became the 9/11 attack” or that even the future hijackers themselves knew about their operation when traveling through Iran. That makes it a stretch to imply Soleimani knew about plans for the 9/11 attacks and then worked to facilitate them. After the attacks, al-Qaida members including Osama bin Laden’s son Hamza fled into Iran, but they were ultimately rounded up by the Iranian government and imprisoned.

https://apnews.com/eba793fad25f603b0fbdfa31d59118db

AIPAC again; MINE ATTACK IN THE PERSIAN GULF. Iran—in violation of international law—mined the Persian Gulf. In 1988, one such mine struck the U.S. Navy guided missile frigate USS Samuel B. Roberts, injuring 10 sailors and blowing a 15-foot hole in the vessel’s hull.

Did they mine the Gulf; yes they did. Was it a specific attack on the US? Not as far as I can see, they mined the Gulf, they didn't attach a Limpet mine to a US ship specifically. So again, it's something of a stretch to suggest that it's an Iranian attack on the US. You might notice a pattern developing here...

The clarity was already there if you cared to look. By all means disagree with what I post, but don't twist or make up posts to suit your agenda.

 

[SocketRocket]

Firstly you've accused me of making up the fact that the list SocketRocket posted up was from an US/Israel organisation when clearly it was, as has been pointed out to you. Then you state that I've been given proof; of the events yes, but not of responsibility. Now you accuse me of saying the events didn't happen, when I clearly haven't. If you look on Google to enlighten yourself, as you suggested I did, you'll find differing opinions about who is responsible for the acts on the list.

Take the 9/11 attacks, about which AIPAC state; Iran knowingly permitted members of al-Qaida, including several of the 9/11 hijackers, to transit Iranian territory on their way to Afghanistan for training.

AP have a different view; THE FACTS: Pence misleadingly ties Soleimani to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on New York City’s World Trade Center. There is no evidence that Iran directly supported the 9/11 hijackers, many of them Saudi members of the al-Qaida terrorist group, nor are there any known reports that Soleimani was involved in assisting with their travel to Afghanistan. First of all, there were 19 hijackers on 9/11, not 12. Pence spokeswoman Katie Waldman later clarified in a tweet that Pence was referring to those hijackers who traveled to Afghanistan through Iran before the attacks. It’s true that Iran allowed al-Qaida operatives to pass through its borders from Saudi Arabia to Afghanistan without receiving stamps in their passports or with visas obtained at its consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, according to a 19-page, unsigned report found among Osama bin Laden’s personnel effects in the Abbottabad, Pakistan, raid. Fifteen of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, one from Egypt, and one from Lebanon. That is consistent with the 9/11 Commission’s report, which found that some of the Sept. 11 hijackers -- possibly eight -- passed through Iran. However, nowhere does the commission’s report mention Soleimani, let alone indicate he was behind the lax travel practices that allowed al-Qaida operatives through. The commission, in particular, “found no evidence that Iran or Hezbollah was aware of the planning for what later became the 9/11 attack” or that even the future hijackers themselves knew about their operation when traveling through Iran. That makes it a stretch to imply Soleimani knew about plans for the 9/11 attacks and then worked to facilitate them. After the attacks, al-Qaida members including Osama bin Laden’s son Hamza fled into Iran, but they were ultimately rounded up by the Iranian government and imprisoned.

https://apnews.com/eba793fad25f603b0fbdfa31d59118db

AIPAC again; MINE ATTACK IN THE PERSIAN GULF. Iran—in violation of international law—mined the Persian Gulf. In 1988, one such mine struck the U.S. Navy guided missile frigate USS Samuel B. Roberts, injuring 10 sailors and blowing a 15-foot hole in the vessel’s hull.

Did they mine the Gulf; yes they did. Was it a specific attack on the US? Not as far as I can see, they mined the Gulf, they didn't attach a Limpet mine to a US ship specifically. So again, it's something of a stretch to suggest that it's an Iranian attack on the US. You might notice a pattern developing here...

The clarity was already there if you cared to look. By all means disagree with what I post, but don't twist or make up posts to suit your agenda.

For what reason would you mine the Gulf?

 

[Tashyboy]

Which specific incidents are you referring to; enlighten us?

you were enlightened to specific events ( not by me) with a fair few missing. I advised you to google them As I did, So you could formulate your own opinion. You didn’t but choose to question the link of another poster. Why? The link is nothing to do with the accusations against Trump, But Iran’s history of terrorist events.
The headline of this Blog is ”Iran admits downing Jet”. Yet 24 hrs earlier it categorically denied this. Irrespective of where you read it. Whether it is USA propoganda or Iranian propaganda. It happened.

 

[tugglesf239]

My opinion is worth no more or less than anyone's on here.

However As someone who has directly been in some very nippy situations with the Iranians and more specifically the IRGCN. All i can say is that they had it coming.

Absolute horrible bunch of bastards. I laughed my proverbial of when i read that Soleimani had been finally slotted. Trumps a pillock however on this one fair play from me.

Murderous and cowardly.

I genuinely can not get my head around anyone that enjoys the freedoms we have in the UK sticking up for that disgusting regime. To blame Trump for the Iranians obviously needing to swat up on threat recognition and IFF codes is comical.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I am not sure that many are sticking up for the Iranian regime on the shooting down of the airliner - and similarly not that many feeling much loss or upset at the loss of the Iranian general.

Most of the concerns - both here but more especially in the US; in Congress and in the Senate - are in respect of process, risk and evidence. Some GOP Senators are very upset at how they are being treated by the administration and disgusted that they with their Dem Senator colleagues are being referred to as 'terrorist lovers' by some of the administration and and some on Fox News (but tellingly not all of Fox News).