robinthehood
Hacker
Looking around at a club to join, the nearest to me wants £1500 for a 7 day plus £500 to join.... Thats just too much. A couple of others offer a flexible deals which seems like a better way to go.
How much?
- Thread starter robinthehood
- Start date
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
Nearest to me is 2340 for 7 day plus 3000 joining! Thankfully there are other options just up the road.
Wolf
Well-known member
Going through this exact thing at moment where we're moving, I'm lucky enough to be within a 30 min drive of several decent courses 1 being a top UK course problem is I can't justify to HiD the joining fee a couple of them want. Fortunately there's a few of them locally that are decent courses and all coming in at under £650 without joining fees so the best one of those is going to win for me.
I can't see how clubs can justify exorbitant joining fees in this day and age, because realistically what do you get for it...
I can't see how clubs can justify exorbitant joining fees in this day and age, because realistically what do you get for it...
Grant85
Head Pro
You get;
* a membership that is committed to the long term, i.e. people who aren't going to just 'miss a season' because they have a lot on
* to financially exclude people from your club who aren't either fairly well off, or really keen to join
* in reality you are probably aren't going to pay a hefty joining fee unless you already know a few members well
You imagine that as long as clubs have a healthy membership, they will retain the joining fee - however in most cases it is a barrier to business and the days of clubs having several years of waiting lists and charging 3 or 4 times the annual subs in joining fees are long gone and fairly unlikely to return.
I guess a lot of clubs continue to charge it because a) they just about have sufficient members, b) existing members who have paid it are reluctant to start letting people in for free and c) a lot of clubs offer payment plans over several years and so in any one month they will have hundreds of pounds in regular income from those who have joined and are paying up their fee - going to be tough to stop the joining fees without pi$$ing those people off.
Wolf
Well-known member
All reasonable and fair points as to why they were charged in the past I guess. But we're in a financial climate now where I believe charging such high joining fees even if spread over a period months is still a bad idea if people want to attract new members.
Commitment of new members I get it, but again most will be put off and those new members like myself with other family commitments will just say no thanks and go elsewhere even if like they can afford the joining fee, for example the one nearest me stunning course and renowned club throughout the UK, I can afford the joining fee, but simply won't pay it because I don't believe what is basically an admin fee should be so much money, whether others in the past have paid it for me is irrelevant because I don't get anything for that added cost. Like I mentioned before times move on.
Then there is the point of financial exclusion, that alone goes back to showing how elitist golf and some clubs think they should be and be above that of the normal working class man or woman. By trying to financially exclude people clubs are turning down valuable business for future growth and showing themselves to be financial snobs in that they'd prefer only high rollers with the high paying jobs instead of being inclusive to all that can afford subs but not joining fees.
Then there's the point of not paying it unless you know plenty of people, again seems odd choice for clubs, because if you do know plenty of people there already then your likely to be more interested in joining and invested in becoming a long term member so they would have your business for years to come. Personally even if I knew plenty of people where I am moving to I still wouldn't pay a large joining fee just to play with my mates, as I prefer to have that in the bank for my family, join somewhere more in line with my family values (financial security) and make new pals.
I totally agree with you that in this modern financial climate that the fee is now a huge barrier to new membership sales and growth, especially with rising living costs and generally stagnating wages.
On your last 3 points a) having just about enough sufficient members seems an odd model to run and reason to keep a joining fee because future growth needs to be paramount to any business for sustainability, but does need to be balance on membership numbers to prevent overcrowding(one for the books to balance in favour of profit) . B) existing members and not offending them is a consideration but most members wouldn't want their club to go under so would be the responsibility of management to explain to them the reasoning and I think a lot would understand this, C) that's where the cycle gets stuck isn't it because allowing people longer to pay is totally the right option but does make changing the business model so much harder to do.
As I said I take all your well thought out points on board as to the reasons why, for and against however I'll still sit in the firmly against section and take the option that affords me best VFM for me and my family rather than pay what is literally the most expensive admin fee you'll find in any sport.
Supply and demand isn't it? It would exclude me from playing the game but thankfully I live somewhere where golf is more affordable and joining fees are a thing of the past
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
Surely if a club wants to charge a joining fee that’s up to them. It does encourage people to not chop and change.
I don’t understand why people moan about a club charging a certain fee for joining or yearly subs but those same people don’t moan about the car they can’t afford and have to run something else instead.
I don’t understand why people moan about a club charging a certain fee for joining or yearly subs but those same people don’t moan about the car they can’t afford and have to run something else instead.
robinthehood
Hacker
It is indeed up to them. Another club I looked at had a more reasonable 1050 per year but wants a 1600 joining fee! And then they want you to be proposed, seconded and have an interview.... then the bloke on the phone said don't worry about any of that! If that's the case why bother with it, it hardly makes for a welcoming look !
Grant85
Head Pro
I think there is a legitimate place for joining fees of maybe a few hundred quid, just to show your commitment. A few clubs I've seen still charge this and then give it back onto your bar card over the next year or two. If all clubs in an area were disciplined enough to do similar, then they wouldn't have the issues of people chopping and changing for the best deals every other year.
However in the case of big fees of anything more than a years subs, then it is either a club with healthy demand for members or they are elitist, and keen to stay that way. However, the fact they are advertising prices to would be new joiners, suggests that they aren't quite in a position of not needing new members. I think you can tell the clubs that genuinely aren't in need of new members, and really only want friends and family of existing members don't even advertise prices.
A club near me, Pollok, was renowned in Glasgow for being elitist and had strict entry criteria in terms of gender, background, economic status etc. Mostly unofficial of course - however in the past year or so they have suspended their joining fee and put big discounts to members under 35. Clearly they are realising that several decades of basically discouraging new members has finally caught up with them and they are a few cold winters away from being in big trouble.
Grant85
Head Pro
Yes - I have joined 3 clubs without knowing any members and all were happy to take my money off me without officially having a proposer, seconder etc.
I guess it is as much out of habit that they keep this process in place and to change would probably require a vote of all members.
However, it does send out a very outdated image.
steadyeddy
Medal Winner
The golf club i am a member at has slightly higher fee's and joining fee than those mentioned and also requires proposer and seconder, you can join without them but on a temporary membership and you get 3 months to find a proposer and seconder
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Where were you looking? Which side of Reading are you based?
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
This really is the answer to your question. Why do you think it is a stunning top 100 course? Because it charges a joining fee and has the money to spend on the upkeep of the course and make improvements
Wolf
Well-known member
Still doesn't make it worth it to me regardless of its place in rankings. Family and security outweighs the option of playing this course and paying as I've mentioned imo a worthless admin feeThis really is the answer to your question. Why do you think it is a stunning top 100 course? Because it charges a joining fee and has the money to spend on the upkeep of the course and make improvements
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Well obviously it's entirely up to you if you choose to join or not but any decent club will be investing the money back into the club/course rather than an admin fee.
Foxholer
Blackballed
That's your choice then! But others may have different priorities, so could well make a different choice! I'd hope the 'Joining' fee was actually a contribution to the capital value (added) both in the past and for the future, as opposed to simply being an 'Admin' Fee!
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
It's hard to justify a joining fee at some of the clubs that charge them.
I get why the "Premier" clubs can charge them, although it's always struck me as a thinly veiled means of keeping the riff raff out.
What really grates is when a club charges a joining fee but " doesn't charge a joining fee"
Probably the (self-proclaimed) premier club around here charges £1500 for the first 5 years, then you revert to the "Member's Loyalty Rate" of £1300...
So to the first 5 years you're paying an extra £200 a year - why not just call it a joining fee!?
I get why the "Premier" clubs can charge them, although it's always struck me as a thinly veiled means of keeping the riff raff out.
What really grates is when a club charges a joining fee but " doesn't charge a joining fee"
Probably the (self-proclaimed) premier club around here charges £1500 for the first 5 years, then you revert to the "Member's Loyalty Rate" of £1300...
So to the first 5 years you're paying an extra £200 a year - why not just call it a joining fee!?
Wolf
Well-known member
That's what the membership money they take in revenue each month is for putting back into the business and running it accordingly, exactly what I do day to day with the business I run which is done in profits from memberships. But I'm not against anyone that wants to pay it just my personal choice.
Agreed entirely my choice never said it wasn't hence why I said in my opinion and my priorities., everyone entitled to their own opinion and choices
Foxholer
Blackballed
That seems like a very good idea to me, especially if members are likely to be more mobile (aka leave the area)!
Rather better, imo, than putting potential members off with an all-up-front £1000 Joining Fee!
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
I wouldn't entirely agree with that. The membership revenue is a pretty much a fixed amount each year (give or take a few changes in membership) and the club will base it's annual budgets around that. If you get 20 new members a year at £1500 joining fee then the club have an additional £30k that they can invest in improvements. My club has a joining fee, we have very few people leave each year because we all feel we have invested in the future of the club.
