How does Scottish Independence affect the rest of the Union?

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Agree wholeheartedly, but cant see it happening - politicians on the whole are in it for themselves and an awful lot of MP's like the London lifestyle, traditions and all its priviledges and will fight tooth and nail not to go 'up north'. Regional assemblies are more likely but would they have any 'real' power or is it just more civil servants we don't need? Its all empty talk at the mo to get Scotland to vote no, then it'll move to all about the general election for the next 6/7 months where team BT lot will suddenly be at eachothers throats again. UK establishment have all the power and significant change is highly unlikely. Once the Scottish rebellion is quashed it'll go back to how it always is. Personally I hope for abandonment of party politics and more and more independent MPs winning seats who don't dance to the tune of power crazed party leaders. Proportional representation is long overdue, seems to work at Holyrood, why not at Westminster (or Manchester!).

Just stated a large part of the YES case there. Whether Holyrood would be any better who knows - but at least the Scottish electorate might feel more able to hoof miscreants out.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Just stated a large part of the YES case there. Whether Holyrood would be any better who knows - but at least the Scottish electorate might feel more able to hoof miscreants out.

a) No it won't. Human nature.

b) No they won't, not any more so than they can now.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

a) No it won't. Human nature.

b) No they won't, not any more so than they can now.

TRue - though if you elect the government and you don't like their behaviour you can hoof em out. Scottish electorate can't do that with a Westminster government. And it was Westminster shenanigans that maxfli65 was referring to.

 

[FairwayDodger]

TRue - though if you elect the government and you don't like their behaviour you can hoof em out. Scottish electorate can't do that with a Westminster government. And it was Westminster shenanigans that maxfli65 was referring to.

You're going to have to explain in what we it's easier for us to "hoof out" the holyrood government than the westminster one. And, please, don't try and suggest we didn't vote for the westminster one.....

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Scottish electorate can't do that with a Westminster government.

Riiiiiiiight.

You do realise that if it wasn't for Scotland we would have a full Conservative government at the moment? So you could argue that Scotland hold more power than anywhere else!

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

You're going to have to explain in what we it's easier for us to "hoof out" the holyrood government than the westminster one. And, please, don't try and suggest we didn't vote for the westminster one.....

Ahh, someone else who doesn't know.

I didn't know before, but through this referendum, I think I've worked out that each Scottish person only gets half a vote. That must be the case, because YES keep going on about not being able to vote properly in the election, not getting what they want etc

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You're going to have to explain in what we it's easier for us to "hoof out" the holyrood government than the westminster one. And, please, don't try and suggest we didn't vote for the westminster one.....

I'm not - simply that bit closer to the electorate. But in the end if the electorate is split then shenanigans can prevail and the disgruntled still stuck with them

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Riiiiiiiight.

You do realise that if it wasn't for Scotland we would have a full Conservative government at the moment? So you could argue that Scotland hold more power than anywhere else!

I agree - but what can the Scottish electorate actually do with that Westminster power? They have voted for Labour MPs and yes that keeps a Tory majority at bay - so power and influence in Westminster - absolutely. But influence or support is only really valuable if you can remove it. The alternative the electorate currently have would then seem to be to NOT vote Labour and therefore ensure a Tory majority - not the result the Scottish electorate would perhaps wish for - or maybe it would.

 

[Foxholer]

You're going to have to explain in what we it's easier for us to "hoof out" the holyrood government than the westminster one. And, please, don't try and suggest we didn't vote for the westminster one.....

It's purely a 'selfish' regional attitude - though more obvious with Scotland being a separate country.

If the sufficient voters in Scotland object to the way they are being governed, taxed, funded etc, then if they have their own government, they can change it easily. If they don't have their own government, then they have to rely on the rest of the UK being of the same mind.

So it's actually the primary argument for Independence! Everything else in the campaign merely highlights advantages or disadvantages of the 2 different styles - plus a lot of emotional junk from both sides!

Btw. It might just be my cynicism, but I believe it's not actually Westminster that really governs anyway - it's Cabinet. And they try to avoid having to be assessed by Parliament wherever possible - only really being keen on going back to the peoples actual representatives when they can't get there own way and have to create new laws and then forcing their will using the Whips if necessary!

 

[FairwayDodger]

It's purely a 'selfish' regional attitude - though more obvious with Scotland being a separate country.

If the sufficient voters in Scotland object to the way they are being governed, taxed, funded etc, then if they have their own government, they can change it easily. If they don't have their own government, then they have to rely on the rest of the UK being of the same mind.

So it's actually the primary argument for Independence! Everything else in the campaign merely highlights advantages or disadvantages of the 2 different styles - plus a lot of emotional junk from both sides!

So it's the same junk as the "government we didn't vote for" nonsense that imagines the Scottish electorate as a heterogeneous bunch. We're each part of the UK electorate and we'll each be part of a Scottish electorate.

A large proportion of people find the candidate/party they voted for doesn't get elected. That's democracy.

 

[Hobbit]

It's purely a 'selfish' regional attitude - though more obvious with Scotland being a separate country.

If the sufficient voters in Scotland object to the way they are being governed, taxed, funded etc, then if they have their own government, they can change it easily. If they don't have their own government, then they have to rely on the rest of the UK being of the same mind.

So it's actually the primary argument for Independence! Everything else in the campaign merely highlights advantages or disadvantages of the 2 different styles - plus a lot of emotional junk from both sides!

Nowt wrong with your assumption. And if the Scottish electorate hadn't fallen out with Labour we'd have a Labour Govt. So lets all blame the Scots for giving us a Tory govt.

 

[bluewolf]

A large proportion of people find the candidate/party they voted for doesn't get elected. That's democracy.

In a short while it's going to be a way of life for a majority of Northerners.. So, when do we get a vote then?

 

[Foxholer]

So it's the same junk as the "government we didn't vote for" nonsense that imagines the Scottish electorate as a heterogeneous bunch. We're each part of the UK electorate and we'll each be part of a Scottish electorate...

Surely they (you) are! Otherwise there'd be no doubt about tomorrow's result!

...We're each part of the UK electorate and we'll each be part of a Scottish electorate...

The first part of that might be changed tomorrow!

...
A large proportion of people find the candidate/party they voted for doesn't get elected. That's democracy.

Indeed! And that definitely looks likely to happen with tomorrow's decision too!

 

[FairwayDodger]

Surely they (you) are! Otherwise there'd be no doubt about tomorrow's result!

My bad, meant to say "homogeneous"

 

[Foxholer]

My bad, meant to say "homogeneous"

Explains it! Thought you of all folk would have got those the right way round!

There's certainly a tendency, of which I'm certainly guilty, of categorising the extremely diverse Scottish electorate as 'the Scots'. Though with such a large proportion based in a Glasgow and its surrounds (and much of the rest in nearby Edinburgh), that's pretty much inevitable imo.

 

[HDID Kenny]

I just want people to vote. That's half the problem with what happened in Scotland, they moan about what party is in power in Westminister and then you find over half didn't even bother to vote. Wonder what the outcome of this vote would have been if only those that voted in the last Gen Election could vote this time round.

People will vote because their vote will count unlike GE when if you are voting for an opponent in a seat with an overwhelming majority for 50 years your vote is pointless!! I know politics are a necessary evil however during a GE it would be interesting to have a 'none of the above' option.

 

[USER1999]

People will vote because their vote will count unlike GE when if you are voting for an opponent in a seat with an overwhelming majority for 50 years your vote is pointless!! I know politics are a necessary evil however during a GE it would be interesting to have a 'none of the above' option.

But they might get in, and then what happens?

 

[HDID Kenny]

But they might get in, and then what happens?

No might about it!! Would be a slap in the face to them make them sit up and notice.