How does Scottish Independence affect the rest of the Union?

[Doon frae Troon]

Trident alone is a major changer.
I would imagine a good percentage of English folk would prefer to see it scrapped rather than move to England.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Trident alone is a major changer.
I would imagine a good percentage of English folk would prefer to see it scrapped rather than move to England.

Which George Robertson (last night on Newsnight) doesn't seem to accept as a possibility. He sees Scotland expelling Trident as an action incompatible with membership of NATO. And GR is stuck with the notion that rUK and an iScotland need to be a major player on the international peacekeeping and peacemaking scene. Maybe rUK want that - but I'm not too sure that an iScotland wouldn't just be happy with watching the skies and seas off it's coasts and the North Atlantic - something that NATO I am sure requires and would be happy for an iScotland to pick up.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The North of Scotland has always been a vital cog in NATO sea and air defense.
I see no reason why that should change. We have plenty bases to share.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It will be up to NATO to decide what Scotland will require to do to gain NATO membership

Would certainly need to increase their proposed defence budget of £25mil a year

 

[Deleted member 18588]

This particular thread nicely sums up why some English people find some Scots tiresome.

It is a debate on what Scottish independence will mean for the rest of the UK and yet it seems to have a large number of Scots resident in Scotland telling us what will happen specifically in England.

And then one of them has the gall to refer to some English folk as arrogant!

You couldn't make it up.

 

[Conman85]

Originally Posted by Liverpoolphil
Have you forgotten about Wales and N Ireland then ?

The UK will still be the UK without Scotland

Wales is a Principality and NI is a province. England and Scotland are the only Kingdoms.

Owned!

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

something that NATO I am sure requires and would be happy for an iScotland to pick up.

I didn't realise you knew exactly what NATO wants!

 

[Piece]

I find it staggering that the rUK seem to have no idea about the changes a YES vote will bring to them.

My daughter meets many English visitors to Scotland and is quite astounded how arrogant and ignorant many are towards the referendum. Some even demand she tells them which way she is will vote.

It's because most of us in England don't really care TBH. We can spout our opinion but it doesn't matter a jot because we can't back it up with a vote.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Originally Posted by Liverpoolphil
Have you forgotten about Wales and N Ireland then ?

The UK will still be the UK without Scotland



Owned!

Don't like to disillusion you but (not for the first time) DfT is wrong.

The title is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

There is, therefore, no need for a change if Scotland votes to be independent of Great Britain.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I didn't realise you knew exactly what NATO wants!

Well if they don't have any need for anyone to fulfill a North Atlantic role all well and good - changed days. And if an iScotland isn't in NATO and they need the role filled - then maybe they'll just get Denmark, Iceland, Norway or even the rUK to fulfill it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Don't like to disillusion you but (not for the first time) DfT is wrong.

The title is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

There is, therefore, no need for a change if Scotland votes to be independent of Great Britain.

Not what I've read - and anyway - what is this Great Britain Scotland is going to be independent of? Maybe the United Kingdom of Great Britain refers to the union of the two kingdoms that form most of the island of Great Britain.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Depends if you mean philosophically or economically?


Philosophically I think it could be a good thing for England (I'm not discussing Wales, they seem to be quite happy with their lot and doubtful they'll change) I've always been surprised at how English nationalism is almost a dirty phrase, highjacked by fuds like Farage.That's not the England I know and love. Polarised politically with left and right evenly matched, a warm and welcoming country on the whole with the occasional idiot (much like Scotland) thrown in to entertain and confuse the masses.The one main problem is the political elite, the ruling class that seems to pervade your politics and therefore your political parties.An inventive, democratic country with a huge role to play in shaping it's relationship with iScotland,Europe and beyond.Bizarre how being a proud English man automatically defaults to some deranged right winger or lager swilling football mentalist.

Economically England is too reliant on the square mile and the south east, a deliberate ploy by the ruling classes I mention above.Areas like the North East/West left to rot as they feed the insatiable beast that is the south east.England has a history of manufacturing on a par with Germany, why has that skill been lost but theirs has not?I do think that losing Scotland, our investment in the £, the loss of out contribution to imports/exports, oil revenues will be difficult to fill, but after a wee bit of pain, both countries will adjust and flourish.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Not what I've read - and anyway - what is this Great Britain Scotland is going to be independent of? Maybe the United Kingdom of Great Britain refers to the union of the two kingdoms that form most of the island of Great Britain.

So an arrogant Scot dismisses Wales.

Great Britain refers, currently, to England, Scotland and Wales. Thus, in the event of Scottish independence two-thirds of GB will still be there.

 

[Imurg]

Change happens
Some changes are good, some are not
We will take it in our stride whatever happens
Not living in Scotland I have no say over Independence - I regularly find myself chuckling over the fact of a Scottish Independence referendum being open to non-Scots who happen to live within the border

 

[FairwayDodger]

So an arrogant Scot dismisses Wales.

Great Britain refers, currently, to England, Scotland and Wales. Thus, in the event of Scottish independence two-thirds of GB will still be there.

Great Britain is the name of the island, i.e. a landmass, not of a political construct. It'll all still be there post-independence but would comprise two separate independent countries.

 

[patricks148]

Change happens
Some changes are good, some are not
We will take it in our stride whatever happens
Not living in Scotland I have no say over Independence - I regularly find myself chuckling over the fact of a Scottish Independence referendum being open to non-Scots who happen to live within the border

what's strange about residents of Scotland getting a vote, how else would they do it?

 

[Conman85]

Don't like to disillusion you but (not for the first time) DfT is wrong.

The title is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

There is, therefore, no need for a change if Scotland votes to be independent of Great Britain.

DFT is 100% correct, learn your history!

The United Kingdom is only referred to that, as it's the uniting of two kingdoms from 1707.......Scotland and England! If Scotland leaves it would no longer be a uniting of Kingdoms!

They may not change the name, but the reference would be outdated and have no significant meaning!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So an arrogant Scot dismisses Wales.

Great Britain refers, currently, to England, Scotland and Wales. Thus, in the event of Scottish independence two-thirds of GB will still be there.

I was quite deliberately precise - Wales is not a kingdom and therefore when I refer to the 'united kingdom' that is in the name of the nation as being that of two kingdoms I meant exactly that. I did not dismiss Wales - it forms the remainder of the island of Great Britain that is neither the Kingdom of England nor the Kingdom of Scotland.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

what's strange about residents of Scotland getting a vote, how else would they do it?

Certainly don't want the likes of me having a vote as I am disturbed - I listen to Kenneth McKellar

 

[Deleted member 18588]

DFT is 100% correct, learn your history! The United Kingdom is only referred to that, as it's the uniting of two kingdoms from 1707.......Scotland and England! If Scotland leaves it would no longer be a uniting of Kingdoms! They may not change the name, but the reference would be outdated and have no significant meaning!

I know it is difficult for you but is now 2014 not 1707 and both nationally and internationally the title United Kingdom refers to Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

This title will continue to be used no matter what but then perhaps we (the rUK) are not obsessed with and bogged down by history as you appear to be.