How did your course designer make it tough

[Ken_A]

As per the title - How did your course designer make your course tough.

For us its a hilly course with very little water - pretty open (lots of wind) with some blind shots and several holes have OOB close to fairways and around several greens.
Most of the troube really comes from the stances and the need to place the drive or approach as some fairways are hard to hold. A lot of our greens are hard to roll onto - the fairways slope or the greens are raised so you need to hit the small (half the size of some other courses) greens.

 

[USER1999]

He put a windmill on the 17th green.

My course isn't really that tough. It is a pretty fair test of golf, and what you see from the tee is what you get. There's no water, a liberal scattering of bunkers, the odd tree or two.

Every now and then we get a captain who likes stupidly deep rough, which can make it interesting, but other than that, if you can hit a reasonable ball, fairly straight, then there isn't much trouble.

17 and 18 are a good finishing stretch, mainly because both fairways slope severely to the left, so placement of the drive up the right hand side is important, ideally with a gentle fade.

The course was laid out by Old Tom Morris, and by all accounts, he knew a bit about golf courses.

 

[freddielong]

He put it somewhere that is generally windy

 

[Ken_A]

He put a windmill on the 17th green.

The course was laid out by Old Tom Morris, and by all accounts, he knew a bit about golf courses.

I think I know that Tom

Ths years captain owns a landscaping company and has made some positive changes - We have had a lot of trees removed and replaced with native trees - the lower branches of many trees have been removed (somewhat helping play times) and now some dence tree areas have had the grass trimmed lower - So you can see your ball when in the trees but you still get penalised for being in them.

All round ours is a good test, as you say what you see is what you get for most of it.

 

[brendy]

Our designer made it difficult by making the hole too small to fit a beachball down it!

Occasional Doglegs, hills (rippled fairways in places makes for awkward stances), raised greens and lots of course boundaries makes our course tough.

 

[SharkAttack]

He made it 17 holes to long. How many level par and under par rounds would I have had if he had stopped at the end of the first.

Shark

 

[RGDave]

As per the title - How did your course designer make your course tough.

He didn't. It's short and has easy greens.
However, there are a few holes which nobody can play.
Every weekend, you can guarantee the division winner with 38 points or whatever has carded two blobs on either the 5th/6th/10th or 17th.

Take the club champs as an example. Asst (off 4) is one under gross standing on the 17th tee (par 3). First shot hits the shoulder of the left bunker and goes OOB. Re-loads, shot 3 lands 4 foot from the pin, kicks right, down into the gulley of death, the lad walks off with a 6. Makes a shaky bogey up the last. Not a prize in sight.

 

[Spinn77]

Ours is short and it has been designed with brooks, streams and lakes in a lot of landing zones.

For example, we've a par 5 where i lay up with a 7 iron short of the lake because i probably wont carry it, then hit a wood and then a wedge.

Later there's a 10 foot brook accross the fairway on another par 5, i probably wont carry it, less likely to bounce over it so lay up and can't quite reach the green at the top of the hill in two.

Ours is tricky like that. A few Par 4's where you can blast it over the water hazards but your risking a 6.

Fast greens too.

 

[TWM]

Stretches the holes and adds bunkers.

 

[stevek1969]

He put the greens to far away from the tee's

 

[pokerjoke]

He planted little trees about 25 years ago down both sides of the fairway now they have grown up[didnt think about the consequenses.

 

[FourPutt]

He put holes 10 - 13 on the side of a massive hill!

Seriously, the 10th is a relatively short 543 yard par 5, but you can't take more than about a 5 wood off the tee to the corner of the dogleg right or you'll overshoot into the trees in front and never find your ball. You can't go over the corner of the trees as the fairway slopes away from the tee and it pitches any ball that comes over the trees straight out of bounds. You then have a massive uphill 320 odd yards with not a decent flat lie in sight. The ball is above your feet, below your feet, uphill, in a divot etc etc. You can easily hit a ball out of bounds from the middle of the fairway! (or at least I can....)

The 11th is a tight tree lined par four dogleg right, with a blind downhill approach to a green that has a massive drop behind it, overshoot and you'll never see your ball again.

The 12th follows the line of the 10th inside. Par 4 dogleg right. Downhill 3-5W from the tee, then a 150-200 yard (depending where you leave your tee shot) approach. The problem again is the sloping fairway and a lack of sunlight to the left hand side, which means it's pretty bare and at this time of year, if you land short, your ball just pitches left and rolls... and rolls... and rolls left into the trees leaving a not very nice third into the two tiered green.

The 13th is a 200 yard par 3 into a three tiered green with trees tight all the way down the left and a steep drop on the right down into a gulley of rough/trees.

It's very frustrating as 1-9 and 14-18 are really quite pleasant and a decent challenge, but not pull-your-hair-out difficult, and then you go on The Hill and just want to cry.

 

[Imurg]

KMy place is fairly flat and fairly open. There's a few water hazards that come into play and only 6 or 7 bunkers. A few trees that you have to dogleg around too. The main difficulty lies in the mounding around the green. If you miss a green you're generally chipping back onto a downslope unless you're short of the green. If your approach is short you're at the mercy of the mounds as to which way it will bounce.
The other "defence" is rough rough. Neckhigh in places and so thick that if by chance you found your ball, you sure as hell couldn't play it. Don't agree with this as it slows play.

 

[Tiger]

He put gorse everywhere

 

[HomerJSimpson]

He didn't but he did design some of the holes badly. Our 7th is 398 off the whites but there is a ditch at 235 (plays downhill off the tee) and there's a ditch and then a narrow landing area the other side.

Absolutely no benefit in hitting a driver as the risk is too great with a lateral hazard left of the ditch and thick rough right. THat means everyone has to hit a club that gets the ball to around 220 and then try and hit the green. I understand it was done as part of the environmental area we have but why not make that hole a much shorter par 4 and tesing a tricky and well protected green.

We also suffer from some captains (usually the ones that hang around with the single figure guys) who think the course needs to be toughened up with thick rough. A few years back it was knee deep about 5 yards off the edge of the fairway. Not fair on 95% of the members but he didn't cut it back alll summer. This year its better with long rough after a decent size piece of light rough apart from 12 where you can hit a straight drive with a 3 wood and still end up in the long stuff.

I guess most courses aren't 100% perfect in terms of design and set-up but at the end of the day you have to adapt to whats in front of you and make the best score you can. Its the same for everyone

 

[Macster]

He made all but 2 of our holes favour a 'Draw'.

He only put one Par 5 on, but 4 Par4's that are way over 400yds (430/430/450/469.)

He put on 5 Par3's - 3 of which play 200yds off Medal tees.

Out of Bounds come into play on 13 of 18 holes.

Oh, and its tough.

 

[kid2]

As per the title - How did your course designer make your course tough.

For us its a hilly course with very little water - pretty open (lots of wind) with some blind shots and several holes have OOB close to fairways and around several greens.
Most of the troube really comes from the stances and the need to place the drive or approach as some fairways are hard to hold. A lot of our greens are hard to roll onto - the fairways slope or the greens are raised so you need to hit the small (half the size of some other courses) greens.

Pretty similar with ours with a few exceptions....We have 10 lakes dotted around the course 1 proctecting the 2nd one on our par 3 8th 2 protecting our 9th 2 on our 10th 1 on our 13th 1 on our 16th 1 on the 17th and 1 on the 18th....Its fairways are very undulating and not unlike links shapes.So its rare you get a flat stance which plays havoc with your shot shape....Bunkers, trees, OOB, and alot of trouble is at the back of greens so you dare not over club....And if your short on a lot your at the beach......

Its set between hills in a valley and when the wind is up which is very often its shows its teeth then.
I love it though.

 

[peteward15]

The Marquess just celebrated it's 10th year and was designed by Alex Hay along with some involvment of (the then investors) the PGA.

I have been lucky enough to play with Alex on many occasions on weekend rollups and he has some great stories to tell about the design of the course.

Those of you that have played it will know that it is mature far beyond it's years. Mainly because it was carved from well established trees.

The course is long, but any designer can make a monster. What makes this track (In My Opinion) better and harder than our other two is the fact that you are required to shape the ball accurately to find the right areas of fairway to then in turn hopefully find a good place to putt from on the green.

The greens are simply nightmares to read. There have so many subtle breaks and the usual pin positions are carefully selected to make use of the breaks and hollows.

There are also strategically placed (left behind) trees to add to the difficulty and a bundle of large fairway bunkers on a lot of holes.

SI 13 for example is our 15th. A par 5 up hill and often into the breeze. It's 575 of the Blues and normally 525 off the yellows. There are no fewer than 9 deep fairway bunkers on this hole and 3 around the green. To think this hole is index 13 it gives you some idea on the difficulty of the rest of the course!

Last time I played with Alex was on the Marquess and we had a 4 ball matchplay friendly game. Luckily he was on my side. He helped me read all my putts and I don't think I've ever putted so well on that course.

 

[rgs]

Made the par 3's tough with water in play on four out of five.
Longish par 4 with well placed bunkers, and a tough finishing 3 holes, 16th a par 4 SI3, 17th a par 3 over water but SI17 and 18th a par 5 SI5 with OOB and a collection of bunkers down the right and water down the left.

 

[Robobum]

He made the greens very small with lots of subtle breaks.

Then the greenkeepers cut the fairways in so they are virtually impossible to find on some holes and cut the greens in smaller so that any putt that finds the surface will be a virtual gimme