High Speed Rail 2 - Whittington Heath

[Crow]

Oh, and I forgot to mention the 10 bn we are spending on the Olympic waste of space.

Can the government just stop spending on massive White elephants?

I can't afford it.

Our boilers just been condemned for carbon monoxide leaks, that's going to cost a bob or two to replace.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm surprised it has had such an easy passage to date. There must be a lot of Tory MP's who constituencies run through the proposed site of this farce. Public opinion is going to be pretty much anti-this and it seems career suicide to be seen to support it and surely they'll lose the election over it (if they weren't going to anyway) if middle England rebels

 

[Imurg]

The Cons around here have such huge majorities that nobody else ever gets a look in.
Majorities may be down but I can't see them actually losing seats - even over a fiasco like this.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

The other arguement in favour is that it will create much needed jobs.

It will, but mostly for the east Europeans who will come over.

Total complete and utter shambles

Fragger

 

[MetalMickie]

I'll swap your Barnett formula for our oil and gas revenue!

Is that Norway's oil & gas or the Shetlands. I understand that neither of them consider themselves to be Scottish.

 

[MetalMickie]

So does the route take it north of Birmingham and then back down again? Whittington is near Lichfield/Tamworth, well north of Birmingham.

I know where Whittington is, NE of B'ham. However, look at the proposed route and you will see that it swings up before coming back to B'ham

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Is that Norway's oil & gas or the Shetlands. I understand that neither of them consider themselves to be Scottish.

No, Scotland's will suffice (including Shetlands) ta very much.

 

[NWJocko]

We are in a recession, trying to save billions, just to stand still. We are making people redundant, freezing salaries, down grading pensions, social services, the health service, education, and council spending.

And in the middle of all this, we are going to spend 42 bn on a train line to get people to Birmingham 20 minutes quicker, in 14 years time.

I'm out, as they say.

Madness.

Coudn't agree more Murph.

The other thing that grates on my cojones is the state of the existing railways int he context of this.

I get the train most days into Manchester and the service is, frankly, embarrassing. Always late, some of the trains must be about 30-40 years old (metal bar digging into your back etc) and massively (probably dangerously) overcrowded.

The long distance trains, Virgin etc, are actually OK. I can get to London in 2 hours from Preston.

Why can't we spend some of the money where it is actually needed, i.e. to replace rolling stock, improve the lines etc on commuter routes?

Train travel is so expensive and the service is appalling.

Rant over.

 

[MetalMickie]

No, Scotland's will suffice (including Shetlands) ta very much.

So no devolution for the Shetlanders then!!

 

[thecoltproject]

It is a shame that this Colt design is likely getting destroyed...

 

[DaveM]

It will be ages before its started - if at all. But a shame to lose some decent countryside & golf courses.

But why does everyone always go ape about it being for benefit of the south east? You've got it the wrong way round - surely it's the Birmingham to London HS route. Which means all the raggy-arsed northerners can easily get down here and make it even more crowded ?

Eh you Brummie aint in the north. Its bloody down south as far as i'm concerned. So you are welcome to them.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...and so I read (in today's Times) that Cameron is threatening to ditch HS2 if Labour drops it's support. This is either a complete abrogation of their governmental responsibility to make decisions; a pragamatic approach to a major project; or just a 'cunning' (stupid) ploy to put the opposition on the spot so as to be able to 'blame' Labour if Cameron ditches it.

Personally I think what on earth is a government doing essentially passing a policy decision on a matter of great importance to the opposition. Frankly pathetic - but pretty much what I've come to accept is the sort of stuff to expect from the hopeless bunch. Make a decision! Stand by it! If funding is not forthcoming as a result of the opposition not support the project then spo be it - that is not the governments fault. Jeez - what a shower of incompetents.

 

[sev112]

Well , the past few months press are talking about £160Bn for this scheme, with possibly borderline benefits. But I understand that we need to spend money on infrastructure, especially soon a recession.

So why are we moaning about spending (or not actually spending) £14Bn on a nuclear power station ? We could have another 10 for the cost of HS2, and we will definitely get a benefit from them, including the substantial amount of jobs in construction and in the local areas.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well , the past few months press are talking about £160Bn for this scheme, with possibly borderline benefits. But I understand that we need to spend money on infrastructure, especially soon a recession.

So why are we moaning about spending (or not actually spending) £14Bn on a nuclear power station ? We could have another 10 for the cost of HS2, and we will definitely get a benefit from them, including the substantial amount of jobs in construction and in the local areas.

£160Bn? Not read any figure anywhere near that - you sure (source?). Maybe £40Bn but £160Bn...

 

[Imurg]

Last figures I heard were around 100bn including rolling stock.
And in case you didn't notice when HMG put out the report a few weeks back saying which areas were going to benefit by millions per year - Bucks is set to lose 93million a year.....aalong with many other places losing more....

It's drifting more and more towards them not building it every week...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Cameron is desperate to stop it as nobody wants it. Crazy scheme does not add up financially.

Save 20 minutes on a journey from Glasgow to London then spend 30 minutes in a queue for a station taxi followed by another 10 minutes at the first traffic lights.
Dualling the A9 to Inverness and turning the A1 into a three lane motorway all the way would be much more beneficial.

 

[Imurg]

There really is an endless list of better things to spend that amount of cash on....

Plus it'll save my Golf Course!!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Sorry to opponents of HS2 - but a high speed rail connection between north and south UK WILL be built - so we may as well plan to start building it today. I find arguments based upon 'money could be better spent' completely miss the point as the link will be built and sums quoted are large but over a period of ten years they are not. Besides - as pointed out today and over the weekend - the alternatives proposed by opponents of HS2 blithely ignore the decades of chaos upgrading existing routes will cause. We cannot predict what economic benefits will accrue - and similarly negative economic impacts are disingenuous. |Besides - I'd much rather have an HS2 than an eight lane motorway.

 

[Crazyface]

I'm with the, it won't get built, brigade. The cost goes up each time the thing is mentioned. More and more people are moaning about it, route / cost as they get to understand / can be ar$ed to find out what will be involved. We are the biggest whiners in the world, and even moan about a bit of hot weather when we get it, so this thing has got NO CHANCE of getting off the plans they will constantly change in an attempt to please everyone.

So stop worrying about your golf courses.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Missing my point I think fellas. I believe 100% that in 30 yrs time there WILL be an HS2. I just cannot imagine a 2043 in which we are grinding along in our conventional speed railways with vast swathes of motorways packed to the gunwales.. In fact if nothing else it will be the need for more road capacity that will drive HS2 to be built if it is not initiated now. That increased motorway capacity will be even more unacceptable in respect environmental footprint than an HS2 - and because of this motorways will be rejected and HS2 will be built.

Also on the 'affordability' front. This is core national infrastructure - the sceptics cannot see the need - but the need for investment can be difficult to see and accept - before it is too late - observe power generation.

The cost of HS2 is like any major single cost - first phase costing £17bn btw. Spread it over 10 yrs say and in the overall scheme of national spending it is actually not too difficult to accommodate.

We are going to have one/. Lets get on with it now so we can start realising the benefits soonest - and so that we can start understanding the benefits we had not realised would be afforded.