Handicap System?!?!?!

[TigerTim]

Hello all in the forum. Newbie Tim here with a question.

Do you feel that the handicap system is fair?

The reason I ask this is that at my club, Sherfield oaks in Basingstoke, we have a member that 3 weeks ago was playing off a handicap of 13(13.2 to be exact). He went out and shot 42 points 2 weeks ago and was cut .9 only to follow this up last week with a 46 pointer and was cut 1.6. His handicap now stands at 11(10.7 to be exact) and I do not feel that this is correct.

While I feel great for the boy to be playing such great golf right now, I cannot get my head around the fact that his playing hadicap has only come down by 2 after such blistering form.

What do you all think?

Anyhoo, club champs this weekend. Lets Ave it!!

Tim

 

[Macster]

Tim,
The Handicap system is the same for everyone, and you can only come down by the set amount per shot for each shot you shoot under.
Clearly he's hit some great form, and shooting well under, but the Club cant go slashing his handicap by what it thinks it should, otherwise the whole thing becomes a farce.

To consistently come down, you have to score consistently below etc, but if it were slashed and amended after every good/bad round, we'd all be all over the place.

 

[Ethan]

Big issue. Fair is a very vague word with a lot of meanings - one being reasonable and not arbitrary, another the same for all, but neither necessarily mean it is equitable, i.e really giving the same chance to all. A pin placed on an impossible place on a green, or a 300 yard carry over water is the same for all, but is it fair or equitable?

The handicap system is basically a mathematical way of responding to scores, so it is always in the past, and copes badly with fast improving players. The Handicap Committee can always apply additional handicap reductions where appropriate. Because people vary in their behaviour, it can get caught out.

The player you refer to, if he had started off 13 but exact 12.9, he would have dropped 3 shots. Just the way the maths works. He won't keep shooting 46 points.

 

[Molly]

He won't keep shooting 46 points.

No he won't. He might shoot 29 points. Then 28. Or worse. The effect on his handicap will not be as drastic once he loses his form, so here is where I have a bit of a problem with the system. 0.3 off for playing well and only 0.1 back for having a poor day. The system punishes the intermittent good play...this guy might never hit his handicap again. Shouldn't the step change be the same? i.e. 0.3 off or 0.3 back.

But to the point of is it fair and equitable, I guess the answer is yes as it is the same for all and is based on an objective mathematical equation that can be applied to individual performance - the one variable (excepting the different categories).

Just another wonderful idiosyncrasy of this wonderful game...

Welcome Tim and good luck in the comp...and against the handicap system!

 

[Kaizer_Soze]

The current handicap system has been in place for several years, and to my mind is fair to all. I can remember (albeit a long time ago) when I was constantly beating mt handicap, I reduced from 16 to 6 in a space of 2 months or so when going through a good purple patch (oh the memories ). It then took me a long time to consistantly play to a single figure and never won a matchplay tie for a long time.

the handicap system will catch up with you eventually, one or two good rounds does not warrant a big reduction in handicap IMO. Consistant good play will eventually do that.

 

[RGDave]

I think the system is about as equitable as it can be.

If I was running the whole thing, I'd have a tweak or two, but other than that, leave be.

So much depends on the CSS in the summer. When everyone has a good knock, I approve of not cutting too much.

The main tweak I'd put in wouldn't be for cuts, it'd be for 0.1s. I honestly believe that anyone playing off any tee ought to be entitled to a 0.1 "qualifying" or not, once out of the buffer zone.

We have a player off 16 who is keen and could potentially play for the club (if we didn't care about the result!)
He can't play Saturdays (like me) and tends to play 50 weeks a year off yellows/mats. He also plays in a 9 hole mid-week.
He never gets 0.1s and should be off 20 or maybe more. He'll never get there and never play for the team....it seems a pity. If you play bad and have completed your card, you ought to be able to go up 0.1 every time.

 

[Yerman]

Its up to the handicap secretary who can cut the handicap on general play -though that doesn't feel fair when it happens to you. Everyone should get the chance to play their handicap down according to the rules which just encourages you to keep improving.

 

[viscount17]

from the oracle
http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk//showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/142907/an/0/page/0#142907

the book analysed the CONGU & USGA handicap systems. using two players whose h/caps are out by 3 shots, one too high (20) and one too low (14), it would take CONGU on average 20 rounds to bring the high h/cap down but about 60 rounds to get the low h/cap up.

 

[Professor]

My club obviously doesn't think its fair as it restricts you to a maximum handicap of 22 in competitions. I play off 27 and complain to my partner on every hole I have had a shot stolen from me. But the last competition was a record. I complained before I left the clubhouse for the tee! I shot 99 (my first 100 break) - par 71. Would have finished 40th but due to the theft, finished 94th (not last by some distance).

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I got cut 0.5 for 39 points last week as the CSS dropped to 69 (-1). I think the system is about as equal (I didn't say fair) as it can be although I agree with RGDave and think there could be a few minor tweaks. I think the guy will soon struggle to play two shots lower. I know I did when I went from 14 to 12 in a 4 week period. It then relies on good form continuing (my didn't) and being able to play the two holes you no longer get shots on well.

It will stop him winning everything in sight during this hot patch (hopefully) but he'll take a fair while to get any shots back (well 8 rounds outside the buffer) and so it does penalise players for hot streaks and not always balances the debit side when things go wrong. The answer... well that would probably need a whole new thread

 

[rgs]

We all live with the same system. I have been fortunate to be cut 5 shots this season from 19.4 to 14.4.

My scores warranted the cuts, next weekend will be the first opportunity i will get to play competitively to my new handicap.

 

[Imurg]

Its about as fair as you can get without the need for a SuperComputer to work it all out.
Allegedly your handicap should mirror your best score. But the problem is if you shoot a level par round from a 5 handicap - difficult but possible - do you cut the player down to scratch? You can't, you have to do it in stages.
I'd be off +2 if that were the case!!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Can anybody remember the old system from the 80's. Am I right in thinking you use to get more than 0.1 back if you hacked or am I slipping into old aged dementure. I've been trying to rack my brains to see how it worked and can't for the life of me remember. Did we go straight from that system to the one we have now or has there been another in between

 

[TigerTim]

Hello all

Thanks for the input. yes, I know that you are all totally correct in your comments but I just needed to rant.

Had a good day yesterday, shot 80 playing off 10.7, too far away for the gross(68 from a man playing off 9 ?!?!?!) and miles off the nett(61 off the same guy) but it was on the Waterloo course which is not my favorite of the 2 courses that we have. Lots of rain last night which should soften the greens a little (not that I hit many of them yesterday) but today is another day and we are playing Wellington which I love.

Thanks once again for your insight.

TigerTim

 

[mickyev]

Hi Chris MC, and all come to that

mickyev newcomer here. i don,t quite agree with what your saying.