Handicap frustration

[bobmac]

There have been several posts lately about how well people are playing but not being cut because either the comps are non-qualifiers for whatever reason, or we played off the yellows etc etc.
In the olden days, the handicap sec could cut you on general play if you showed your present handicap didn't reflect your current playing ability.

Would you be happier if more control of handicaps were given back the the handicap secs instead of the strict rules in place to stop them giving reductions in casual play.
In other words, bring back Rule/Clause 19 or leave it as it is?

 

[USER1999]

No. Leave as it is. General play is just that, general play. Your true handicap is name in the book, off the medal tees, with tricky pin placements. It is dealing with the pressure of competition, not boshing it round having a laugh.

 

[john0]

The seaason before last the Comps committee docked my handicap a full shot because of 'known play' apparently. Got a letter in the post during the winter saying that I was losing a shot at the start of the new season. When the season started they must have changed their mind and gave me it back as I never did get docked - I think they must have seen my chipping/putting in the meantime and took pitty on me

 

[chrisd]

The problem always was the abuse of the use of Rule 19 Bob. My regular partner and I were both put before the Committee for cuts as a result of a Texas scramble some years ago by the Captain . Thankfully commonsense prevailed and they didnt do anything. However my partner was cut from 12 to 9 and me 16 to 13 some time shortly afterwards. That wasn't a great problem as we were both improving rapidly and I also won a Club Major, but the unfairness was that people keeping under the radar of the Capatain, secretary and committee members went unchecked.

You can still adjust under Clause 23 (I think) of CONGU but the rules are more stringent

Chris

 

[Swinger]

You can still get cut in general play but not for one round only and any recent qualifiers need to be taken into account also.

b)
23.7 - 23.9

http://www.congu.com/template2.asp?pid=60&parent=33&parent2=60

Yellow tees are used during winter golf at a lot of clubs but there is no reason why these can't be qualifing events but the course needs to have a seperate SSS score from the yellows to calculate a CSS on the day.

Also every competition should be a qualifier if possible, especially if there is any sweep or 2's money available.
With the exception of special events, i.e. scrambles, foursomes, greensomes etc.

The only event we run at our club that is a non qualifier is our winter eclectic where we have no sweep money for any individual rounds or 2's money. The idea is to 'go for broke' if you like on every shot to get the lowest score possible on every hole over the course of 10 rounds during the 6 winter months. This is viewed as a 'fun' winter event and is designed to put a bit of fun into winter golf.

I personally think that H/C secs still have a good amount of power in handicap reduction but it stops the odd one or two cutting the 24 handicapper by 5 shots when he has the round of his life.

If someone still wants to be cut then put a series of good cards together and then plead your case if your current sec isn't too forth coming.

If your not doing it in qualifiers?
Get down the practise ground!!!

 

[chrisd]

The seaason before last the Comps committee docked my handicap a full shot because of 'known play' apparently. Got a letter in the post during the winter saying that I was losing a shot at the start of the new season. When the season started they must have changed their mind and gave me it back as I never did get docked - I think they must have seen my chipping/putting in the meantime and took pitty on me

That was probably because of the Annual Winter Review whereby the handicap committee look at those playing better/worse than their h/caps on a proven regular basis. Adjustments are made once a year and usually around the end of December


Chris

 

[Fyldewhite]

Absolutely not. How can you say a handicap isn't representative if a score wasn't done in proper conditions. It's like saying I knocked it round the local pitch and putt in a good score, can I have a cut please?

The system is based on lots of golf, not one off scores. If players play enough golf then their handicap will work out OK. The two "problems" with the system are that many players don't play enough competition golf and many clubs don't run enough qualifying competitions. For 95% of us there is no problem.

 

[Matty]

I think handicaps and accusations of banditry are surely very difficult areas to deal with in a club.

I think by implication, the higher your handicap, the less consistent a golfer you may be (of course you could be very consistent and just not a great golfer). The less consistent you are the higher the chance of you putting in an amazing score one week and having a howler the next.

I don't think this in isolation should get a handicap cut one week and an increase the next. Nor do I think with this level of background one can be called a bandit.

BUT, I'm also sure that there are some golfers out there who intentionally inflate their handicap in comps etc.

How you protect against this is anyone's guess, but I suspect that being expected to submit regular score cards (for comps and social rounds) would be a good idea - I guess like the idea about 'active' handicaps.

 

[thecraw]

Handicap system is so wrong, it hampers the low man and protects the high man. Its a terrible system, however that said I cant really be bothered thinking up an alternative!

 

[RGDave]

Would you be happier if more control of handicaps were given back the the handicap secs instead of the strict rules in place to stop them giving reductions in casual play.
In other words, bring back Rule/Clause 19 or leave it as it is?

I played yesterday in a non-q comp and asked to hand in a supplementary card. We'll see if it's accepted.

Not that my h'cap will move, I scored 36 points on the button.

My feeling is that ALL players should have the right to ask to hand in ANY card over a measured course if they have not averaged one q-comp per month.

 

[chrisd]

How about this one Bob ...

On the scorecard, a box to tick if you don't want your handicap to go up 0.1 on a bad round. I would personally tick it and keep my handicap where I feel it should be and where I am happy to play to.

Chris

 

[Jabba]

Yes I would like it. I work shifts so my weekends off are limited and most of my free weekends are taken up with lifting competitions. My competitions are therefore limited to the midweek stableford, 50% of which are played off yellow tees. As I've mentioned before I had a run of 2nd,4th,1st,2nd,1st and got a cut of 0.4 from my handicap.

So yes, I'd like a cut please

 

[Junior]

I think the handicapping system works fine. Away scores from open comps can be submitted for handicap purposes etc, and I also think that you should be able to submit a "general play score" as there maybe members who cant play competitions at weekend due to work commitments. However, i think that if someone wants to be adjusted based on a card from general play, then they should declare before their round that the card is to be submitted for handicap purposes.

Winter handicaps are a bit trickier, shortened courses, par 4's turned into par3's etc . . . how about adjusting handicaps for winter only??, then have players return to there previous handicap when the course is back to normal.

 

[robbest3offthetee]

Chrisd,good idea about the box to tick ,but if you are going up 0.1 when a person plays they are not playing to the h/cap they have already...

 

[SammmeBee]

I think too many Handicap Secs are too quick to not make bigger stance for making the competitions qualifying in the first place....

I can't believe for 1 day a week/month in the winter, the tees cannot be put in position so they comply with the Rules - preferred lies and embedded ball are perfectly allowable under the CONGU rules - it seems a cop out to make them non qualifying....if the conditions were so hard, the scores themselves would take it into account and make the CSS go up, maybe even to be NQ...

If more clubs played more competitions and more peopl played then the handicap system would work fine because over time everyones handicap would reach their own level....

 

[kid2]

This has confused me since i started playing the game last year....What and how is General play calculated.....

Iv shot some stupidly low scores this year off a 21,19 and 17 handicap..All were medal comps when i shot a nett 64,65 and a 70 but have had a few buffers in between and iv had 42 points stableford and also a 38 and my fair share of 0.1's......

Im now currently off 15.8 and my last 4 stableford scores as we are now in Lift,Clean and Place conditions at our club have been 34,33,31,32 off our white tee's with some tricky pins also.....

If i was to keep bringing in over the 30 points how is my handicap calculated....Does it go up 0.1 until i break 33 or do i get chopped in december for end of season reviews.

 

[Billysboots]

I think a degree of common sense is required. The handicap chairman who ignores the evidence of good play which is staring him in the face is as dangerous as one who wields the axe based on a one off round.

Firstly, they need to have an understanding of the CONGU rules and too many don't. Then they need to apply them consistently. Too many don't.

If I knock it round off the yellows in 5 or more under SSS I will put a card in and leave the decision to the committee. That way nobody can accuse me of cheating.

Our chair will look at 2 or more general play cards together with recent comp scores and will adjust handicaps if needed. He has chopped me this season and as a result my current handicap is about right.

 

[MashieNiblick]

This has confused me since i started playing the game last year....What and how is General play calculated.....

If i was to keep bringing in over the 30 points how is my handicap calculated....Does it go up 0.1 until i break 33 or do i get chopped in december for end of season reviews.

Hi Kid2

I've had some time on my hands this year, and little opportunity to play, so been doing some golf related surfing and read up a bit about handicaps. I'll try to advise you as best I can based on my understanding of the situation.

In answer to your first question try here

http://www.congu.com/template2.asp?pid=60&parent=33&parent2=60

here

http://www.congu.com/template2.asp?pid=211&parent=38&parent2=211

and here

http://www.englishgolfunion.org/showpage.asp?code=0001000200090014

Sorry these are a bit wordy but they are the guidelines by the official bodies. In essence adjustments outside qualifying competitions can be made either through the Annual Review or General Play but only in particular or exceptional circumstances as set out in the guidelines. I think there is a computer programme that effectively does the Annual Review based on a player's scores over the year and identifies those whose scoring pattern justifies an adjustment.

General Play adjustments are a mechanism whereby someone whose handicap clearly does not reflect their playing ability can have their h/c adjusted to reflect this, outside qualifying comps or the Annual Review. The EGU guidance indicates the circumstances that would justify this. The amount of the adjustment is down to the H/C Committee but shouldn't be less than 1 whole stroke up or down.

In relation to your second question, if you are returning lots of qualifying scores within a few shots above your handicap (e.g 35 - 30 points) with the occasional very good or very bad score then, yes it is likely your exact handicap will simply be adjusted 0.1 up each time you're outside the buffer zone or will be cut in accordance with the provisions for your h/c category (in your case 0.3) for every stroke below css.

If on the other hand your is outside what would normally be expected for your handicap (e.g. lots of very good scores under h/c), or if there are other factors as set out in the above guidance, then a cut under General Play, or more likely at the Annual Review, may be justified. In that case I understand the actual amount will again be at the descretion of the H/C Committee.

From the looks of things you've had a big cut this year and are now scoring around your current h/c so a further cut at Annual Review or on General Play might need a few more 40 pointers

Hope that's helpful. It's complicated to try and summarise. Apologies if it's unclear or I have missed anything. Happy to be corrected by those who are more knowledgeable.

 

[kid2]

This has confused me since i started playing the game last year....What and how is General play calculated.....

If i was to keep bringing in over the 30 points how is my handicap calculated....Does it go up 0.1 until i break 33 or do i get chopped in december for end of season reviews.

From the looks of things you've had a big cut this year and are now scoring around your current h/c so a further cut at Annual Review or on General Play might need a few more 40 pointers

Hope that's helpful. It's complicated to try and summarise. Apologies if it's unclear or I have missed anything. Happy to be corrected by those who are more knowledgeable.

Thanks a million Matt......Its all clear now.....It just i keep hearing this general play thing being knocked about but was never sure what it ment.....All crystal now though

 

[thecraw]

Is this WINTER HANDICAP thing that keeps raising its head an English thing????

I have never in my entire life heard of a WINTER HANDICAP!