Handicap Advisory visits

[sawtooth]

We have reps from BB&O visiting our club for a free consultation. They will cover the new CONGU rule changes for 2018, compliance checklist, CDH cleansing etc.

I think we are in good shape but this visit is really welcome and will tell us how well (or not) we are prepared for the coming year.

Anything like this happening at your place?

 

[Old Skier]

Never heard of this, what is BB&O

PS. I do my own CDH cleansing and the other stuff, if their consultants, I'll do it for half their price :lol:

 

[fundy]

Never heard of this, what is BB&O

PS. I do my own CDH cleansing and the other stuff, if their consultants, I'll do it for half their price :lol:

berks, bucks and oxon, the regions golf union

 

[Old Skier]

Good services

 

[rulefan]

Part of the audit that all counties are supposed to be doing

 

[Old Skier]

Part of the audit that all counties are supposed to be doing

Interesting, I'm sure it will eventually filter down and get done in the West Country

 

[rulefan]

Interesting, I'm sure it will eventually filter down and get done in the West Country

I don't think all clubs will necessarily be visited. Random samples and requests.

 

[Old Skier]

Best tidy up the qualifier cards cupboard :lol:

 

[sawtooth]

It’s totally free and spaces are limited for our region. They are doing visits over the next month and then some more in the autumn.

Maybe contact your own regional golf body for information if you don’t know anything about them.

Chances are they have tried to contact your club secretary.

 

[Old Skier]

Not overly fussed as everything you mentioned I and my handicap committee have already sorted for 2018. Our county get a nose bleed if they come to far north.

 

[sawtooth]

Thought that you might be interested in how it went with the visit by the County secretary.

It was a 2hr session discussing our compliance with CONGU , rule changes for 2018 and the new worldwide handicap system. It wasnt exactly an audit but I'm pleased to say that we passed with flying colours.

Topics that we covered.

1. Competition rules in prominent place
2 Assigning new handicap process
3 SSS has been reduced by one due to shorter course length - approved by BB0 for temporary use.
4. Competition sign in requirements
5. Regular and fast update of scores to CDH
6. Handicap list displayed
7. Handicap annual review process
8. 28+ handicaps. Competition changes to accommodate up to max 54 handicaps.
9. CONGU recommendations around accepting annual review changes, speak to the player before especially if it affects competition eligibility.
10. Taking into account general play cards.
11 Appeals procedure for handicap changes - Players never decide on their handicaps.
12 Handicap allowances change for 2018
13 Cannot adjust for non qualifiers
14 Supplementary scores met
15 We run two seperate handicap systems for mens and ladies which causes the EGU some extra work so we will look to combine the 2 moving forward.
16 CHS process
17 CDH cleansing, export list of members and check against our HM system, send exception list to EGU with notes.
18. Winter rules can be used outside normal times, need to apply to EGU.
19. 2020 USGA slope rating will be used for worldwide handicapping purposes
20. USGA rating will replace SSS.
21. Slope rating takes 2-3 days, courses in UK will be assessed and rated.
22. 2022 every course needs to have actual rating, till then will be given provisional rating for example SSS 69 may become slope 135.

 

[rulefan]

Interesting. Many thanks.

Can you expand on these two please

9. CONGU recommendations around accepting annual review changes, speak to the player before especially if it affects competition eligibility.
11 Appeals procedure for handicap changes - Players never decide on their handicaps.

 

[jim8flog]

I too would be interest in No.9 given recent FAQs from England Golf

[TD="width: 50%"] Some of our members refused a Club Handicap because they were prevented from playing in Club and Open competitions that required a CONGU® handicap. Can they refuse an increase in handicap now?
[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"] Players will not be able to refuse an increase in handicap from scores returned in qualifying competitions and are subject to the process outlined in the Annual Review. Any increase resulting from a Handicap Committee review will be subject to the usual Handicap Appeals Procedure laid down by England Golf.
[/TD]

 

[sawtooth]

Interesting. Many thanks.

Can you expand on these two please

9. He just reaffirmed that unless there is very good reason not to , you should accept the recommendation of handicap changes as per the annual review. We talked about scenarios where a person may have their handicap changed that may then cause them not to be eligible for club competitions ie if someone changes from 27 to 29 and the max handicap for a particular comp is 28. Just that its good practice to consult the player and talk it through with them. So that you can explain (if necessary) why the change occurred. True for any handicap changes that the player would not be expecting. Also he said that its better to explain that all decisions are discussed and agreed by committee and not by any one individual.

11. Following on from 9, we the club must have a clear appeals process for players to follow if they challenge any adjustments made. I asked about whether adjustments can be overridden by a player, say if a player did not want a +2 shot increase as a result of a continuous handicap review for example, should we accept their wishes? His answer was no. not really, the player should never be the person to decide their handicap its always the decision of the handicap committee.

Interesting insight into what the future may hold as well, in the US every round counts towards handicaps whether competition or not. It may be that we have an application on our phones that we submit a score with every time we play home and away, competition or otherwise - using the new slope rating system. I think this ties in with better controls to catch those who rarely play club competitions but clean up prizes in external comps - bandits in other words.

 

[rulefan]

9. He just reaffirmed that unless there is very good reason not to , you should accept the recommendation of handicap changes as per the annual review. We talked about scenarios where a person may have their handicap changed that may then cause them not to be eligible for club competitions ie if someone changes from 27 to 29 and the max handicap for a particular comp is 28. Just that its good practice to consult the player and talk it through with them. So that you can explain (if necessary) why the change occurred. True for any handicap changes that the player would not be expecting. Also he said that its better to explain that all decisions are discussed and agreed by committee and not by any one individual.

11. Following on from 9, we the club must have a clear appeals process for players to follow if they challenge any adjustments made. I asked about whether adjustments can be overridden by a player, say if a player did not want a +2 shot increase as a result of a continuous handicap review for example, should we accept their wishes? His answer was no. not really, the player should never be the person to decide their handicap its always the decision of the handicap committee.

It's nice to confirm that he, I and EG are on the same wavelength

 

[rulefan]

Not overly fussed as everything you mentioned I and my handicap committee have already sorted for 2018. Our county get a nose bleed if they come to far north.

How far north is your county? I assume you don't play in Devon.

 

[jim8flog]

Thanks.

It was more the first part about 'talking too' that concerned me. We have made quite a good steps at telling players to be ready for the new handicap rules and in our notification letters we are reminding players of the changes and where they can find full details in the clubhouse, including a copy of the England Golf FAQs. We also remind players of the appeals process we have in place in the letters.

 

[azazel]

Interesting insight into what the future may hold as well, in the US every round counts towards handicaps whether competition or not. It may be that we have an application on our phones that we submit a score with every time we play home and away, competition or otherwise - using the new slope rating system. I think this ties in with better controls to catch those who rarely play club competitions but clean up prizes in external comps - bandits in other words.

This is something that concerns me with the US system. If me and the lads want to go for a bounce game or if I want to go for casual 18 holes to try out a new driver etc, why should that have to count towards my handicap? Also, who could possibly check if I've played anyway?

 

[duncan mackie]

This is something that concerns me with the US system. If me and the lads want to go for a bounce game or if I want to go for casual 18 holes to try out a new driver etc, why should that have to count towards my handicap? Also, who could possibly check if I've played anyway?

1. Golf is a game of trust
2. Until we are presented with the flavour of the system to be implemented here we don't know what rounds will be included in any calculation - the minute it was announced that there might be local variation in some areas it opened to door to a stricter definition being introduced over here...

 

[Old Skier]

How far north is your county? I assume you don't play in Devon.

I do play in Devon and anything above the A30 is to far north for our county.