Groove sharpener ?

[duncan mackie]

if your taking the rather anal view about by sharpening the grooves could cause a violation of the rules ( i'm not a pro and play for fun) could the very nature of striking a ball alter the actual shape of the grooves and thus making them non-conforming.

yes and no

yes it can change the shape of the groves but no, it won't make them non-conforming as it won't make them wider, sharper or deeper.

it could be argued that constant striking will create a degree of concavity in a forged head, but this would be the result of normal play/use and therefore OK

the current rules on iron groves requires them (for clubs with lofts > 25) to have rounded edges; so, as suggested by some here, any 'grove sharpening' should be carried out with huge care (basically it shouldn't be done!). Whilst it's possible to flatten off the face after sharpening you would need a very specialised tool, dedicated to the particular groves you have, to create the correct roll on the edges.

 

[BTatHome]

if your taking the rather anal view about by sharpening the grooves could cause a violation of the rules ( i'm not a pro and play for fun) could the very nature of striking a ball alter the actual shape of the grooves and thus making them non-conforming.

No, normal wear and tear is acceptable. However clubs which have had a groove sharpener used must conform to the newest specs.

 

[DappaDonDave]

I use one...works great. Cleared out the years of usage from the grooves and meant that balls get ripped up after 3-5 holes of full on iron shots. Not noticed any back spin but the ball seems to run a little less.

I don't play medals so don't give a hoot about the measurements of ones grooves

 

[USER1999]

I use one...works great. Cleared out the years of usage from the grooves and meant that balls get ripped up after 3-5 holes of full on iron shots. Not noticed any back spin but the ball seems to run a little less.

I don't play medals so don't give a hoot about the measurements of ones grooves

But I bet you take money off your playing partners who conform to the rules? Would you be happy to play me for money, if I nominate on the first tee which of the rules of golf I am going to ignore that day?

 

[Andy]

An eye opener of a thread highlighting the blatant use by some of a tool which breaks the rules.

For once I think I actually agree with Murph lol

 

[6inchcup]

i thought the rule for amateurs was not for a few years yet regarding wedges,i have not been aware of any rule that says you cant clean your clubs or a description of any implement you can use to do so,how would anyone know if their grooves did not reach the standard,do we have to carry a certificate every time we play to verify them,i think some are being a little pedantic.

 

[Andy]

i thought the rule for amateurs was not for a few years yet regarding wedges,i have not been aware of any rule that says you cant clean your clubs or a description of any implement you can use to do so,how would anyone know if their grooves did not reach the standard,do we have to carry a certificate every time we play to verify them,i think some are being a little pedantic.

A groove Sharpener to myself is intended to sharpen the grooves not clean them out. Why not use a tee, toothbrush or just a cloth to clean them?

The clubs when sold have the grooves manufactured to the maximum tolerence alllowed by the rules. If your grooves are so bad that you need to gouge them deeper I suggest you buy a new set of irons.

The game is played in a honest manner by most and widening, deepening your grooves or cleaning in your case is far from within the rules in my eyes.

 

[6inchcup]

A groove Sharpener to myself is intended to sharpen the grooves not clean them out. Why not use a tee, toothbrush or just a cloth to clean them?

The clubs when sold have the grooves manufactured to the maximum tolerance allowed by the rules. If your grooves are so bad that you need to gouge them deeper I suggest you buy a new set of irons.

The game is played in a honest manner by most and widening, deepening your grooves or cleaning in your case is far from within the rules in my eyes.

could you verify when the rules changed for amatuer golfers and what if you have older wedges that were made prior to the cut off date,its one thing deliberately trying to deceive, and in the act of doing on thing ( cleaning grooves) with an implement that is within the rules of golf having an effect on the club surly,how many on these pages change wedges after every round ( like a pro) so in my opinion it is not wrong to have your grooves sharpened to original spec. no matter what that spec was either v-grooves or u-grooves,lets face it those rules were for the pro game not a sunday 4 ball knock about.

 

[Andy]

could you verify when the rules changed for amatuer golfers and what if you have older wedges that were made prior to the cut off date,its one thing deliberately trying to deceive, and in the act of doing on thing ( cleaning grooves) with an implement that is within the rules of golf having an effect on the club surly,how many on these pages change wedges after every round ( like a pro) so in my opinion it is not wrong to have your grooves sharpened to original spec. no matter what that spec was either v-grooves or u-grooves,lets face it those rules were for the pro game not a sunday 4 ball knock about.

I have no idea nor do I need to know the date change if it ever happened. If your so bothered by it, contact the R&A, whilst you do ask if a said Groove Sharpener is allowed within the rules. I would be most interested in their answer.

The point is your deceiving the members at your club. Do you happily play in Medals and Competitions at your club with potentially illegal grooves and happily walk away with monies and cups?

 

[G1BB0]

I really feel some of the posts are massive over reactions here.

'oh, wait, your grooves are 0.000001 mm out.. DQ'

my arse :ears:

 

[duncan mackie]

I really feel some of the posts are massive over reactions here.

'oh, wait, your grooves are 0.000001 mm out.. DQ'

my arse :ears:

I agree that it's a shame when over reaction gets mixed in with reality.

Totally out of the blue I actually picked one of these 'groove sharpener' tools up earlier today so I will use it on an old club tomorrow morning and provide before and after images for comparison.

May, or may not, be facinating. Will post them to this thread.

 

[6inchcup]

I have no idea nor do I need to know the date change if it ever happened. If your so bothered by it, contact the R&A, whilst you do ask if a said Groove Sharpener is allowed within the rules. I would be most interested in their answer.

The point is your deceiving the members at your club. Do you happily play in Medals and Competitions at your club with potentially illegal grooves and happily walk away with monies and cups?

you keep saying illegal grooves,yet you cant tell me if the rules have come in for amatuer golfers,and is it ok to play with the older shape grooves,do you check on everyone clubs prior to playing a game with them? and what about someone who buys a second hand wedge how does he/she know the grooves conform,should we introduce a kind of drugs test for clubs,so after every comp you have to have your clubs scrutinized for legality by a professional groove guru,get a life,and stop moaning about something very few people really care about.

 

[Imurg]

The are, and always have been, rules on the depth and width of grooves allowed on a clubface.
They have changed recently and all new clubs will conform to the new standard although older clubs with "non-conforming" grooves are allowed for use by Amateurs until at least 2024. Professionals and Elite Amateurs already have to conform.

That aside, if you take one of these sharpeners to the face of your Vokey, you have to be sure that, by removing even a minute amount, that the groove depth and width remain within the "old" rule. As you can't, unless your eyesight can measure to 1000th of an inch, then it has to be a bad idea.

And Yes Gibbo, if the rule is broken, knowingly or otherwise, then the appropriate penalty must be applied. In principle, sharpening your grooves without ensuring they stay within legal limits is the same as kicking the ball out of the rough - it's a breach of the Rules.

 

[G1BB0]

yes if used to the extreme, I totally agree. when I purchased one it was used on older wedges and was a couple of runs up each groove so barely altering the depth if any. If used on new/relatively new wedges then yes the depth can be altered below the conforming standard quite easily

If anyone uses one on new/ish wedges/clubs then they need shooting as they can slip and I wouldnt like a nice big scratch on my Jaws wedges

 

[Imurg]

when I purchased one it was used on older wedges and was a couple of runs up each groove so barely altering the depth if any.

But the point is that you have no way of knowing how deep the grooves were to start with so you have no idea how much you've changed them...

Sounds petty I know but it's all down to keeping within the limits set by the R&A..

 

[6inchcup]

The are, and always have been, rules on the depth and width of grooves allowed on a club face.
They have changed recently and all new clubs will conform to the new standard although older clubs with "non-conforming" grooves are allowed for use by Amateurs until at least 2024. Professionals and Elite Amateurs already have to conform.

That aside, if you take one of these sharpeners to the face of your Vokey, you have to be sure that, by removing even a minute amount, that the groove depth and width remain within the "old" rule. As you can't, unless your eyesight can measure to 1000 th of an inch, then it has to be a bad idea.

And Yes Gibbo, if the rule is broken, knowingly or otherwise, then the appropriate penalty must be applied. In principle, sharpening your grooves without ensuring they stay within legal limits is the same as kicking the ball out of the rough - it's a breach of the Rules.

but how would you know a rule has been broken without having proof first,hence me saying after every round the winners clubs should be examined by someone who can measure each groove precisely,until that comes into effect then your whistling down the wind.

 

[Andy]

Sounds petty I know but it's all down to keeping within the limits set by the R&A..

Were wasting our breath Imurg. Some obviously dont grasp the rules.

 

[6inchcup]

Were wasting our breath Imgur. Some obviously don't grasp the rules.

untill 2 post ago YOU didn't know the legality,so what your implying is apart from you everyone else is a potential cheat and the lowest of the low and not fit to walk on the same golf course.

 

[G1BB0]

Obviously!

I do get it btw Imurg/Andy, I was merely trying to state a point, unfortunately it is something that can only be adhered to by anyone in the know. When I purchased, as an example, I wasnt really aware of conforming/non conforming, didnt play in comps and had old probably 5th hand wedges, for that reason I felt it was a worthwhile purchase. Now I play in comps and have moved on I have no need for such a tool.

 

[Imurg]

but how would you know a rule has been broken without having proof first,hence me saying after every round the winners clubs should be examined by someone who can measure each groove precisely,until that comes into effect then your whistling down the wind.

The club will be supplied to you in a conforming state - either "old" rule or "new" rule.
If you tamper with it in any way that MAY affect the conformance of the club then the chances are you're breaking a rule.
By taking a sharpener to a wedge groove and removing metal/widening the groove, you may be returning the groove to it's original state. If you're really lucky. More likely you'll be increasing the size beyond allowable limits thus breaching a rule...

So if you're happy with potentially breaking a Rule of Golf then fill your boots - and have a think about it.