Greens maintenance: thoughts appreciated...

[Marko77]

Is there any green staff here or anyone with greenkeeping knowledge that can give me reasons a greenkeeper wouldn't put sand down after coring greens?

I would have thought this to be standard practice however word at our club is the head greenkeeper doesn't approve so it shall not be done.

I'm going to have a wee browse around the net tonight to see if there's any published methods or theory's but thought would post here for any educated responses as I'd like to challenge his decision via our Committee to see if we can force change if in the benefit of the course.


Cheers

 

[tpred]

hi marko, do you mean hollow tined.
The green keepers did this to our greens a while back,just before junior clubs champs and finals day.They are supposed to dress them at some stage afterwards,the staff at our course dressed the greens but not sufficiently and now we have greens that are a nightmare to putt on and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

The greenkeepers even admitted they hadn't put enough dressing on.

Not sure why your greenkeeper doesn't approve of topdressing,all i can say is from experience of this type of green is hit it and hope it drops in.

 

[Marko77]

hi, hollow tined is what I'd call it, some call it cored or spiking although they are probably different exercises but my club apparantly issued a comm to players going out saying the greens were being 'verti-drained'!!

Reports from the lads playing winter league today was that the greens were a mess ("complete f****** joke" was the exact sentiment) but its the same for everyone - just got to get on with it I suppose.

 

[clubchamp07]

I would of thought when u hollow tine greens it not only allows air to get to the roots but you are taking some old stuff out at the same time. So Yes they should be dressing them and putting better stuff back in.

 

[Golfer2112]

<Potential Bullshit Warning>

Don't take this as fact or gospel, but I heard that you are "supposed" to hollow-core the greens and leave them open so that the frost can get in and open up space underground. This space is then filled with sand dropped down the cores at a later date/ This stops the green sinking under the weight of lawnmowers and golfers

</Potential Bullshit Warning>

 

[clubchamp07]

Yes golfer u called it, Bullshit.

 

[Golfer2112]

A guy down the pub told me so it must be true...

 

[madandra]

The DUMP that I am a member of decided in their infinate wisdom to hollow tine the greens TWO days before a member and guest day.

That is the reason I am taking my hard earned cash to a course that puts playing golf at the top of their priority lists. We don't have a greenkeeper, we call him THE GARDENER.

 

[Lloydy84]

Don't take this as fact or gospel, but I heard that you are "supposed" to hollow-core the greens and leave them open so that the frost can get in and open up space underground. This space is then filled with sand dropped down the cores at a later date/ This stops the green sinking under the weight of lawnmowers and golfers

Golfer2112 i heard that so called bullsh*t myself, can't remember who from. It makes sense if u think about it.

Maybe that greenkeeper guy will have an answer...

 

[Golfer2112]

Yup, it does make sense but whether or not it is true remains to be seen. I, like you, await "greenkeepers" wisdom

 

[Greenkeeper]

Hello Gentlemen
I feel like a lamb to the slaughter somewhat! But I hope to put some minds and frustrations at rest.
Firstly, it saddens me to hear that Course Managers all over the world are subjected to this sort of condemnation, Why is this? Greenkeeping is a highly complex occupation that takes many years of education and experience to master. The uneducated can’t comprehend some of our operations nor should they, I don’t tell a Doctor how to make me well again, I trust and respect his expertise. Please show respect and trust in your greenkeeper.

Anyway, Why Hollow core and not fill in the holes?
By leaving the holes OPEN he is merely giving the soil optimum air. This is naturally reducing the anaerobic conditions, breaking down thatch and more.
Aeration of any sort (which there are many) is the most important operation that a greenkeeper has in his armory. Air is the most important factor to healthy greens. One factor is the reduction of ‘thatch’. Another is improving conditions for healthy bacterial activity to break down the thatch into compost & fight disease as well as encouraging deeper roots. Plus many more benefits!
Thatch, (dead organic matter) is the waste or litter produce by the plant. IF this thatch receives plenty of air & bacteria it will breakdown naturally. If the thatch receives little air it will build up, become stagnated, anarobic blacklayer may accumulate and the greens may possibly need rebuilding.

As for the frost thing. The best greenkeepers work with nature; frost will help enormously to fracture the soil. However if the soil is saturated due to little aeration then the frost can be a problem. Freezing soil is GOOD freezing water and wet soil is not.
Criticism is easy, greenkeeping is not!

I hope this helps!

 

[tpred]

Hi Greenkeeper.Many thanks for the explanation.
Please dont think i was having a go at your profession as i appreciate you are highly skilled in what you do as i am in my profession.

Some of the greenkeeping staff at our course dont seem to show as much enthusiasm as ive noticed on other courses i have played.During the summer the greens were out of this world and then all of a sudden the hollow tining (which obviuosly has to be done)was done and the greens are very bad.
In general the course isn't looked after that well.Sometimes it looks fantastic and other times looks like a tip.Ithink its a case of some caring and enjoying the job and some just aren't that bothered.
please accept my apologies if you are offended and in no way were the comments meant to be derisory.

 

[Marko77]

Yes, thanks Greenkeeper for your response, at least now I have an explanation for why they have done what they have instead of just being told, he doesn't believe in filling the holes in.

It just seemed strange to me given many other courses in the area had filled them in including a course which is widely regarded as having the best greens.

 

[Greenkeeper]

As all greenkeepers we develop a skin like a rhinoceros, I am not offended at all. I would like to say that, like all greenkeepers I can’t abide hollow coring. It destroys the surface and the thought of knowing that we are in for grief weeks after is awful. But like every occupation there are good and bad. I can assure you of one thing, if he were a poor greenkeeper he WOULDN’T core. He would selfishly think of himself, avoid the grief by avoiding essential maintenance.
I couldn’t comment on the condition of your course as I have no idea of his resources and place of work, but I do wish you and him can have mutual respect and a mutual understanding.

Respectfully Yours

 

[Greenkeeper]

Hi Marko
I have read you post again, and if I’m not mistaken your greenkeeper very recently Verti-drained not Hollow cored the greens. If so this is a totally different operation. Verti draining relives compaction that has generated over the summer. Its essential to remove the compaction before the winter arrives. At this time of year it would NEVER be advisable to Top-dress, the ground conditions are not suitable, this could course ‘surface compaction’ and smearing. It would also accelerate disease activity and place the sward under excessive stress. Topdressing should only be applied in the correct / dry conditions. Personally I would never top-dress after September.
As for you comparing other greens, this is not strange but maybe a little naïve on your part. Neighbouring course can and often do differ enormously.

Again, misconceptions and lack of understanding creates confusion and sometimes-unfair criticism. Yet with the grief and condemnation, we still have a fantastic job!!

I hope I have helped build a bridge.

Kindest Regards

 

[Marko77]

Thanks again for bringing clarity to fore.

As you say, many of us are niaive when it comes to the expertise of greenkeeping, we see holes and assume hollow tining - we hear the term verti drained and assume its just a fancy term for the aforementioned.

Communications a great thing and thanks to your explanation I'll be able to advise more members at the club to hopefully avoid the scenario of a slagging match which benefits no one.