Greenkeeping Questions?

[greensman]

Can you give us the definitive answer to this question?

Does playing on frozen/frosty greens do lasting damage.
I've heard yes and no from various sources.

Sorry to disappoint, but the answer is both yes and no.

This depends on the situation and frost type.

Hard frost: this is when the ground is solid, the frost is deep and the air is cold. I believe little, if any (apart from spike marks) long-term damage is caused.

De-frosting: this is when the ‘hard frost’ is starting to thaw, this will create considerable damage to the root structure and in many cases spring will start late and recovery will be slow.

White frost: very picturesque, but some damage is evident, however this is not long-term. Firstly the grass will burn and go black when walked on, this will then turn brown and thin slightly. When the weather improves the damage should recover. But care needs to taken with prolonged white frost; this could create more damage than acceptable.

The biggest problem is the ice collecting on the golfers shoes. The collection of ice turns the spikes into studs and its like walking on the green in football boots.

I hope this helps a little.

 

[haplesshacker]

Got to agree. One of the most informative and interesting threads on here recently.

The club I belong to has 2 18 hole courses, a par 3 9 hole course and next spring is to open a brand new 9 holes to replace half of one of the existing 18 hole courses. They've been very busy with the new 9 holes and remodeling the existing course. All the while, trying to keep the course going for the last year or two. Whilst areas of the course look a mess at the moment. What are the risks to the 9 holes when we're allowed to grace the fairways and greens? Are they more susceptable to damage because they're new?

Also. Why are trolley bans required? Looking at the physics of it, surely a three wheel trolley and golfer are spreading the weight more evenly than a golfers size 10's loaded with a carry bag, with clubs, waterproofs and other winter paraphinalia?

Great job in answering all these questions by the way. Thanks.

 

[CliveW]

My question is twofold and related to other posts on the forum.

i. As a greenkeeper, what is your opinion on the metal/soft spike debate?

ii. What is your opinion regarding hedgehog wheels?


Thanks.

 

[greensman]

Thanks for the offer of questions and answers, great idea.
Last autumn our greenstaff hollow-tined the greens, but didnt, i suspect, back fill/feed enough to cover the holes, as a result we had "bobbly" greens through the summer which were slow, as he didnt cut them short, to prevent the holoow-tined holes being evident. This autumn he again has hollow-tined - 2 weeks ago approx, but as yet hasnt back filled or dressed them, just layers of what appears to be sand....is this sufficient or are the greens to use a golf term buggered?
We also have a disease on 2 or 3 greens I think it is called fuserian? is that terminal?

Many Thanks

Wow, how to begin, Firstly let me explain what a hollow tine is: this is to remove ‘thatch’ and if you have a thatch problem then it is important to get rid of it.

Many of you have probably heard of THATCH, many of our greenkeeping woes are centred on thatch. Whether it’s preventing thatch, removing thatch or even removing the cause of thatch, it’s an important factor throughout the turfcare world. But what exactly is it? And why is it such an issue?

In simple terms thatch or organic matter is the waste material of the plant. This is similar to Fat or Cholesterol in the animal world. If this is not prevented or controlled a build up of thatch can accumulate and you will have a host of problems on your hands:

o Pest and disease – excessive thatch creates the perfect environment for many little critters.
o Winter Playability – wet thatch will produce softer, spongy ground conditions. This will have a negative effect on the ball roll, bounce & speed. In severe cases the result may be unplayable surfaces and loss of revenue.
o Summer Playability – during dry spells, thatch can become water repellent (hydrophobic) and this can make the ground very dry and hard. In severe cases, a loss of grass can occur (dry patch).
o Plant health – the plant health will suffer resulting is more fertiliser, chemical and water usage. A vicious circle!


The role of aeration. The key to healthy turf is without doubt air. A good aeration plan is integral to thatch control. Aeration is like exercise; the more exercise we do the more our ‘fat’ decreases, the healthier we get, the better we feel. In the plant world this is the same.
We often talk about the living things in soil, well in truth, the living things below our feet actually live in the air spaces in the soil. Aeration provides the air that helps all the beneficial organisms living below our feet, in turn those guys break down our unwanted thatch.


Hollow tine, this is similar to liposuction, physically pulling the fat or thatch out. This also provides the greatest amount of air in the soil and is a great way to exchange the unwanted thatch with free-draining top-dressing or sand.

The disease Fusarium Patch (Microdochium nivale) is not terminal. It is expected when heavy aeration is done.
Fusarium Patch can occur at any time of the year during conducive weather conditions. It is most common and damaging during the autumn and winter when the weather is mild and moist. It may also occur during spring in mild temperatures and during summer in warm, humid conditions. All turf grasses are susceptible to infection but annual meadow grass (poa annua) is known to be the most susceptible of all.

Factors that allow the grass to be susceptible;

Poa annua grass dominant grass species
Humid conditions, surrounded by trees, top-dressing etc
Poor surface drying due to shading and no air movement
Over-fertilized soft grass growth or release of nitrogen due to aeration
Alkaline rootzone conditions
Excessive thatch layer

So in essence your greenkeeper is making the brave choice to remove the thatch and hopefully he has the Clubs backing as this will show dividends in the future.

 

[greensman]

My question is twofold and related to other posts on the forum.

i. As a greenkeeper, what is your opinion on the metal/soft spike debate?

ii. What is your opinion regarding hedgehog wheels?


Thanks.

In my opinion the soft spike can hinder the greenkeeper. Soft spikes without doubt create less scuffing or spike marks, however those scuffs help us control a weed grass called Yorkshire Fog. Since the invention of soft spikes I have seen this increase.

The benefits are for you the player, less scuffing = betting surface.

Hedgehog wheels, without doubt they help, how much I don’t know but they are a help. The reason for trolley damage is not the weight, it’s the smooth wheels smearing. This smearing creates ‘surface compaction’ and the grass struggles to grow. Plus for some reason, when we use a trolley we are like sheep and always follow the same path… why I don’t know?
The hedgehog has a dimple so the smearing is reduced, so basically they do help… but my opinion is we should always carry, if you can!!! Wishful thinking

 

[mancity101]

thank you very much for the response, i feel at least i have some knowledge now of what has happened, want a job at out club?

 

[Robobum]

....Plus for some reason, when we use a trolley we are like sheep and always follow the same path… why I don’t know?

I know this is your gig Greensman (excellent thread btw) but to answer this one........We are herded onto certain paths by the white lines and "trolleys this way" signs put up around the greens during winter.

 

[Leftie]

Greensman. It's great having someone like you, an expert in your field (pun intended), on board. You have already gone a long way in overcoming the great "them and us" divide.

One thing that my golf partners and I try to do, whenever practical, is to chat to our greenkeepers out on the course, find out what they are doing and why. Build up a relationship with them. They seem more that happy to share their knowledge with us and seem to appreciate being appreciated.

Keep up the good work.

 

[Mike_j_golf]

Hi,
Our course had lovely USpga greens 3 years ago that now have a lot of different grasses in them giving a very uneven roll at times depending on how much growth the greens can be very bobbley just because of the different length of grass in the evening, also they have been hollow coring them twice a year is that necessary or would one hollow coring and one spiking be enough each year meaning there are 4 months when they are not in great condition.
Thanks Mike

 

[matt01]

greensman this a great post, i have got more from this than speaking to our own green staff,at my course and i am on the greens commity

good of you to put yourself forward for the question

keep up the good work

 

[inthehole]

Greensman, thankyou for your earlier answers but could you expand on the subject of rolling; can you roll too much, and if so how do you decide on how frequently/hard you roll?

Secondly , I ve heard the term iron in respect of greens especially in connection with speed.. could you briefly explain the process.

Thirdly, a local parkland course has had quick but hard (as opposed to firm) greens this year, which have been good to put on but impossible to get shots to hold ( even for good players).Is there any harm in having the greens like this from a greensmans point of view. It has meant usually landing short of the green and letting the ball release on but the problem for players is that unlike a links where the bounces are firm due to the parkland nature of the course it is possible to get a very soft bounce and leave you looking a right pratt! On balance as a player I would put up with this for the fast nature of the greens but I did worry that it might not be good for the greens in the longer term (due to compaction).

Greensman, I hope you continue to have time to answer everybody's questions. Its a great idea because we all hear and at times talk about course management but the problem is we dont understand the other side of the debate.

 

[greensman]

Hi,
Our course had lovely USpga greens 3 years ago that now have a lot of different grasses in them giving a very uneven roll at times depending on how much growth the greens can be very bobbley just because of the different length of grass in the evening, also they have been hollow coring them twice a year is that necessary or would one hollow coring and one spiking be enough each year meaning there are 4 months when they are not in great condition.
Thanks Mike

I mentioned in an earlier post about USGA greens taking a few years to settle, I fear this may be the case in your situation. I can’t say for sure and without knowing your situation I would not want to guess. I will say that greenkeepers HATE the hollow tine!!! Its hard work, time consuming and destroys the playing surface. This in mind I would suggest it must be necessary. Maybe a polite word to your greenkeeper could shed some more light on the situation.

 

[EaseNgrace]

I'd like to know, how do you get a job as a greenkeeper? Is there any specific qualifications you need? Are there many jobs available ?

I'd love to be a greenkeeper, I love golf and I love gardening and the outdoors, early mornings etc.

Your best contacting your nearest Agriculture college, they are all over the UK and they will help.

It also depends on your age and willingness to start at the bottom. Although greenkeeping holds the same qualifications as most trades, NVQ, HND, etc experience is by far the most important. It takes many years to achieve the relevant skill level. You could contact David Golding from the GTC, greenkeeping training committee for further advise. http://www.the-gtc.co.uk/

Good Luck

Thanks for the link, and some great advice. I know where i'll be looking if work becomes scarce.

 

[Dodger]

Surely hollow coring is only time consuming if your machinery is crap,get one that picks up the majority of cores and it doesn't take that long surely.

 

[greensman]

Greensman, thankyou for your earlier answers but could you expand on the subject of rolling; can you roll too much, and if so how do you decide on how frequently/hard you roll?

Secondly , I ve heard the term iron in respect of greens especially in connection with speed.. could you briefly explain the process.

Thirdly, a local parkland course has had quick but hard (as opposed to firm) greens this year, which have been good to put on but impossible to get shots to hold ( even for good players).Is there any harm in having the greens like this from a greensmans point of view. It has meant usually landing short of the green and letting the ball release on but the problem for players is that unlike a links where the bounces are firm due to the parkland nature of the course it is possible to get a very soft bounce and leave you looking a right pratt! On balance as a player I would put up with this for the fast nature of the greens but I did worry that it might not be good for the greens in the longer term (due to compaction).

Greensman, I hope you continue to have time to answer everybody's questions. Its a great idea because we all hear and at times talk about course management but the problem is we dont understand the other side of the debate.

Rolling greens is a great way to achieve a better green speed without cutting lower. The rollers are rather light (same as a cutting unit) in weight but have a vibration that will smooth the surface. It can be done too much but as long as it’s in conduction with regular aeration the damage is avoided. Research has shown that using the roller three times per week and in wet conditions surface compaction can arrive, so sensible use and again if the surface is kept open with aeration all should be good.

Ironing is referring to the Turf Iron, this is another type of vibrating roller used in greenkeeping. Although very similar in results, the iron is a designated ride on machine.

Hard Vs firm, this is always an issue, at my age (no jokes please) the issue is that we should always try and achieve firm greens but how do we know if they become too firm… its very subjective. Some golfers complain when the greens become slightly firm and they are unable to stop their rescue club 200yds from the green. Others like the challenge of firm greens. But in all seriousness, greens can be too firm or hard and with some careful micro tinning this should solve the problem.

I much prefer to have firm greens as a problem than greens being too soft. The STRI (sports turf research institute) have an implement to measure firmness. Using this implement will take any subjectiveness away.

 

[greensman]

Surely hollow coring is only time consuming if your machinery is crap,get one that picks up the majority of cores and it doesn't take that long surely.

What about disposing of the waste material, normally about 100 cubic meters
Filling the holes with sandy dressing 60- 100 tonne, depending on size of tine hole.
Overseeding down every hole
Trying to get a surface back as soon as possible.
Preventing disease outbreak.
The list goes on, but believe me it is very time consuming and very unpopular, but sadly necessary at times.

 

[didsbury_duffer]

Hi Greensman, you have already provided a wealth of knowledge. My question is on bunkers, which have never been particularly good at my course for the last 20 years since I have been a member. I realise that sand depth and impaction cannot be helped by members reversing out of bunkers from front to back, raking as they go, and therefore transferring the majority of the sand to the rear of the bunker. However, how often should the greenstaff re-circulate the sand in a bunker so that the optimum depth is achieved over a wider area, and how often should a bunker be deep-raked (a term I have heard mentioned)?

 

[stevek1969]

Well done Greensman this has been one of the best and informative posts on hear for a while. Our green keeper is a bawbag and never answers any questions we have for him, we are only asking out of curiousity and not being cheeky.
A very welcome addition to the Forum

 

[greensman]

Hi Greensman, you have already provided a wealth of knowledge. My question is on bunkers, which have never been particularly good at my course for the last 20 years since I have been a member. I realise that sand depth and impaction cannot be helped by members reversing out of bunkers from front to back, raking as they go, and therefore transferring the majority of the sand to the rear of the bunker. However, how often should the greenstaff re-circulate the sand in a bunker so that the optimum depth is achieved over a wider area, and how often should a bunker be deep-raked (a term I have heard mentioned)?

Bunkers should be raked as often as your resources allow, should they be high on the priority list??? This is a matter of opinion and one that the Greens committee should decide. After all they are a ‘hazard’ and strictly speaking should be punishing. Should a bunker be good, should we enjoy bunker play? I believe we should try and achieve consistency, however it is almost impossible to have complete consistency.

Without doubt bunkers are a massive drain on resources, they are very costly and many man-hours are spent on them. With the current economic climate I can see bunkers being removed or made smaller at many clubs.

I remember in my early days the bunkers were raked once per week, if lucky, sand was toped up once a year and the golfers accepted this as normal. Nowadays our customer has a higher expectation, bunker maintenance is almost daily. This comes at a cost.

Sorry for being vague, but bunkers will always be an emotive subject, if I had the answer I would be a wealthy man

 

[Doh]

Bunker's do seem to be the bain of the greenkeepers life.If only club members and even course designers realised the cost of maintaining bunkers, course dont need vast amounts of bunkers 50yrds long.

I know of two course's near me who have had to stop maintaining some of it's bunkers because of the cost these are now G.U.R.

Our greenkeeper who is very good says if he had his way the only courses that would have bunkers would be Links.