Grangemouth to close............

[CliveW]

Closure of Grangemouth refinery will have a massive impact on the whole of the UK as the North Sea oll pipeline goes directly there. If it were to close tomorrow the whole of the North Sea oil industry would have to close too until such time as a new pipeline is laid to the nearest refinery.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just looking for clues as to why the Tory's are not bothered to help

Because they think this closure would make Scots feel vulnerable and hence (in the mind of Westminster tories at least) less likely to vote for independence. Though I hear that there may be something of a U-turn by the unions on the cards.

 

[SS2]

I used to work in Grangemouth and did some contract programming work for BP in the (good old days) 1990's. The place was awash with cash, good jobs, great contracts and lots of investment and new build. It's very sad that it has come to this but apparently the place has been losing money for years.

 

[blackpuddinmonster]

Because they think this closure would make Scots feel vulnerable and hence (in the mind of Westminster tories at least) less likely to vote for independence. Though I hear that there may be something of a U-turn by the unions on the cards.

I have a different take on this SLH.
I actually believe most Torys would be happy with a vote for independence.
An independent Scotland means 58 less opposition MPs, based on the results of the last election.
Cynical i know, but not i fear beyond the realms....

Just looking for clues as to why the Tory's are not bothered to help

If there's any truth in this Chris, then someone needs to explain what a democracy is to Dave.
Mind you, it does explain a few things.

 

[In_The_Rough]

I have a different take on this SLH.
I actually believe most Torys would be happy with a vote for independence.
An independent Scotland means 58 less opposition MPs, based on the results of the last election.
Cynical i know, but not i fear beyond the realms....



If there's any truth in this Chris, then someone needs to explain what a democracy is to Dave.
Mind you, it does explain a few things.

Exactly. The Tories will be hoping for a yes vote which in turn will finish off Labour for many years. Losing Scotlands votes would be a crushing blow for Labour and one that would take a long time to recover from and would guarantee a Tory gov for a long time. Fingers crossed for a yes vote then

 

[blackpuddinmonster]

Exactly. The Tories will be hoping for a yes vote which in turn will finish off Labour for many years. Losing Scotlands votes would be a crushing blow for Labour and one that would take a long time to recover from and would guarantee a Tory gov for a long time. Fingers crossed for a yes vote then

Needless to say, but mine are crossed for a big fat NO!!! :ears:

 

[chrisd]

Because they think this closure would make Scots feel vulnerable and hence (in the mind of Westminster tories at least) less likely to vote for independence. Though I hear that there may be something of a U-turn by the unions on the cards.

Agreed SLH

In actual fact, and despite thoughts to the contrary on here, the national news last evening said that the Government were working hard to try and secure the plant and jobs.

 

[In_The_Rough]

Needless to say, but mine are crossed for a big fat NO!!! :ears:

Think you will get your wish mate anyway as I cannot see it happening.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

I don;t care about the referendum on this, we're talking about 1000's of jobs here, homes and lifes at risk.There needs to be a united front from Westminster and Holyrood and concessions from both sides.It's essential Grangemouth stays open, for the local community,Scotland and The UK.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I don;t care about the referendum on this, we're talking about 1000's of jobs here, homes and lifes at risk.There needs to be a united front from Westminster and Holyrood and concessions from both sides.It's essential Grangemouth stays open, for the local community,Scotland and The UK.

I agree with you but it's inevitable that the independence issue will loom over every political decision taken with respect to Scotland over the next year. The referendum should have been done and dusted before now so that the country can move on... one way or another!

 

[CMAC]

anyone know the average salaries at Grangemouth? reason I ask is that maybe the pay and pension cut the company wanted/needed wan't going to be as devastating to some, certainly not as devastating as closure.

I've known at least 12 people who work/worked there, nearly all on long term contract and their hourly rate would frighten the French, no idea what everyone else gets though.

 

[Val]

anyone know the average salaries at Grangemouth? reason I ask is that maybe the pay and pension cut the company wanted/needed wan't going to be as devastating to some, certainly not as devastating as closure.

I've known at least 12 people who work/worked there, nearly all on long term contract and their hourly rate would frighten the French, no idea what everyone else gets though.

Im not privvy but all I do no is that know one working there is on the breadline, far from it.

 

[ger147]

It's also unbelievable that they are losing money hand over fist making petrol.

If you can't make a profit refining and supplying petrol you should stick to colouring in!!

 

[SS2]

anyone know the average salaries at Grangemouth?

Radio Scotland yesterday morning read out an email from a listener who said the average salary was £55k. No idea if that is accurate or not or if it includes contractors as well as permanent staff.

 

[FairwayDodger]

It's also unbelievable that they are losing money hand over fist making petrol.

If you can't make a profit refining and supplying petrol you should stick to colouring in!!

True enough. We pay a fortune, apparently the retailers don't make much profit on it and now it seems not the refinery either.....

 

[DCB]

It's also unbelievable that they are losing money hand over fist making petrol.

If you can't make a profit refining and supplying petrol you should stick to colouring in!!

Unfortunately the plant is well past it's sell by date. Lack of investment in new process equipment has come home to roost. The patch up and get it going mentality of various operators means that it is nothing more than a working museum. No-one will spend the money required to produce a modern plant on this scale.

 

[blackpuddinmonster]

Unfortunately the plant is well past it's sell by date. Lack of investment in new process equipment has come home to roost. The patch up and get it going mentality of various operators means that it is nothing more than a working museum. No-one will spend the money required to produce a modern plant on this scale.

Global over production combined with falling demand in the west, coupled with your lack of investment, means it is now cheaper to import much of our fuel needs.
The question is, as a country are we happy to let market forces dictate the future of our refineries, and the possible repercussions this may have on our future fuel security?
As re-nationalisation is of the agenda, do we have any choice?
Could this be another privatisation coming home to roost?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

It's also unbelievable that they are losing money hand over fist making petrol.

If you can't make a profit refining and supplying petrol you should stick to colouring in!!

Less people want petrol, with diesel being more popular.I also think that the lack of gas to do something technical,vital and confusing is also a factor.along with the fact it needs £300M spent on it.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

All parties involved seem to be holding a gun to each others heads.

I have no faith whatsoever in Scottish Union leaders, they are trapped in a 1960's mindset.

 

[ger147]

Less people want petrol, with diesel being more popular.I also think that the lack of gas to do something technical,vital and confusing is also a factor.along with the fact it needs £300m spent on it.

In my original post, for petrol read petrol/diesel.

As for the investment required, that is the part I find unbelievable. How have we let it get in to such a state? We're going to end up in the ludicrous position of pumping our own crude oil out of the ground around our own shores then sending it abroad to be processed. That's simply madness for a commodity currently SO important to all of our daily lives at present.