TonyN
Money List Winner
Wouldnt it have to be off the whites?
Golf Monthly Society Handicaps
- Thread starter TonyN
- Start date
I think you can be cut off yellows as we have number of midweek stablefords of the yellows and they count for handicaps. I think its down to the CSS to be the deciding factor but I'm sure I read on here in one of the many handicap debates that CONGU don't do general play cuts or am I getting confused (most likely scenario)
RGDave
Money List Winner
If you want to cut yourself for society (GM) matches, then adjust your score to the SSS for whichever tee you used.
Do you have the card, or can verify the normal SSS for yellow?
Do you have the card, or can verify the normal SSS for yellow?
centuryg5
Head Pro
You can swap your trophy for this if you want fella:
The resemblence is quite uncanny
haplesshacker
Money List Winner
I recall a forumer trying to organise a collection of forumers results to have a 'league'. I guess from that you could also obtain a GM society h'cap.
The only problem was it didn't have the support (though some of that might of been down to the 'who'), but in the main, it was felt that it would be open to as much abuse as a club h'cap. But I have no issue in someone trying again. Except that I don't play with forumers very often. So what h'cap do I use then?
Thn there's the whole SSS, CSS thing. Player 1 could be playing off 18 on a difficult course, and player 2 off 9 on an easier course. Put them both on a 'middling' course and both could play to the same level, ie 13 or 14!
Every comp I enter at the club (every weekend pretty much) is used for h'cap purposes. The weekend runs from Friday to Monday (4 days), which gives as many people as possible a chance to enter. Though this has thrown up it's own 'cheats'. Consequently I don't think I'll ever win anything, anywhere.
The only problem was it didn't have the support (though some of that might of been down to the 'who'), but in the main, it was felt that it would be open to as much abuse as a club h'cap. But I have no issue in someone trying again. Except that I don't play with forumers very often. So what h'cap do I use then?
Thn there's the whole SSS, CSS thing. Player 1 could be playing off 18 on a difficult course, and player 2 off 9 on an easier course. Put them both on a 'middling' course and both could play to the same level, ie 13 or 14!
Every comp I enter at the club (every weekend pretty much) is used for h'cap purposes. The weekend runs from Friday to Monday (4 days), which gives as many people as possible a chance to enter. Though this has thrown up it's own 'cheats'. Consequently I don't think I'll ever win anything, anywhere.
KeefG
Journeyman Pro
SSS for yellows is 68.
TonyN
Money List Winner
I am not saying this has to work, I am looking for people to suggest ways OF IT WORKING!
Herbie
Tour Winner
A simple leveler (for genuine oversights or play probs)would be to have all forum meets off 3/4 h/c rather than creating a secondary h/c system.
My h/c is ligitimate in every sense and all golfers should play enough validating comps to justify their own(ligitimate reasons excused), or write a letter to your h/c committee requesting a reduction and give examples/records of play and reasoning. You hardly ever hear of golfers doing this, but often hear of a few asking for an increase using the same method.
I have played in the past, many many comps in a year that do not have h/c adjustment value, but have written in to explain when my game has improved and requested reduction, and got it.
There is always fair way to get fair h/c, often it just takes a bit of effort other than simply playing a min of 3 validating comps per year, if you are honest enough that is?
My h/c is ligitimate in every sense and all golfers should play enough validating comps to justify their own(ligitimate reasons excused), or write a letter to your h/c committee requesting a reduction and give examples/records of play and reasoning. You hardly ever hear of golfers doing this, but often hear of a few asking for an increase using the same method.
I have played in the past, many many comps in a year that do not have h/c adjustment value, but have written in to explain when my game has improved and requested reduction, and got it.
There is always fair way to get fair h/c, often it just takes a bit of effort other than simply playing a min of 3 validating comps per year, if you are honest enough that is?
Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
I am sure that if you have a word with your secretary explaining the situation and hand the cards in Tony, he/she will adjust your handicap on standard of play. I know the secretary at Crowborough used to do this for me, and the secretary at my new club has taken scorecards I have handed in from Bearwood Lakes & Tyrells Wood into account when activating my new handicap there.
Just make sure you get them signed by one of your playing partners and mark on the card that it is for handicap purposes and which tees you played off.
I am playing at Chartham Park on Thursday and if I shoot a good score my card will be handed in at Highwoods for consideration too.
Just make sure you get them signed by one of your playing partners and mark on the card that it is for handicap purposes and which tees you played off.
I am playing at Chartham Park on Thursday and if I shoot a good score my card will be handed in at Highwoods for consideration too.
bobmac
Major Champion
Bring back rule 19
Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
I don't think it's as simple as that HNJ.
All you would get then is that somebody in Tony's situation (who is admitting he is a better player than his offical handicap suggests) would still "clean up" but simply by a slightly slimmer margin.
I played with a 12 handicapper once who scored 45 points in a Society Day. The guy was a professional footballer and spent all of his spare time playing golf with his mates. Guess what? He didn't hand his cards in.
Playing off 3/4's that day he would have still scored 42 points and me, with a "real" handicap would have been happy to come in with 32 or 33 points off of that reduction.
Why should people who take the time and trouble to ensure that their handicaps bear a true relation to their standard of play be penalised to accommodate the few that don't????
Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
Would I play Tony giving him 7 shots?
Would I play HTL giving him 5?
Not for money
No Sir, no way
vig
Tour Winner
Firstly, I think the GM meet H/Cap is a great idea. I think it needs to be policed by one individual that has the software and knowledge to do it.
Secondly, I have played with both Tony & Keith, Probably more than any other forummers.
Keef keeps a track on his H/cap and keeps it updated. He doesn't have an official handicap. I'm happy to play him off his stated handicap and don't doubt his integrity.
Tony, although he hasn't played in any medals, has only recently acquired his official handicap. is it 2/3 month T?
If he had had the same handicap for a year or so without adjustment that's a different issue. He handed in the 3 cards all legit. He got the handicap, legit. He PM'd me and told me what he had been given. The bottom line is that the handicap he was given WAS a true reflection of how he played at the time. He has said to me on many ocassions that he felt it was too high and said that he didn't want to win the prize but, he won it fair and square.
Would I doubt Tony's integrity? Absolutely NOT!
My official handicap is 22. Over the last few month's that has been quite generous.
I haven't played in a medal in the two years that I have been a member at the club. I can't commit to weekends.
I keep an online tracker which tells me, even though I have had some really crappy rounds & low moments over the last few months that my H/cap is 14. I shot a 79 at Normanby Hall the other week. The first time I playe the course. so off my "official" h/cap that would have been a net 57!! off my 14, it would still be a 65.
I won't reveal what I shot in the afternoon
Sometimes that round that just "works" happens, sometimes it doesn't
Lastly, I did say, given the conditions on the day, that someone, or more would come in with a really good score.
Secondly, I have played with both Tony & Keith, Probably more than any other forummers.
Keef keeps a track on his H/cap and keeps it updated. He doesn't have an official handicap. I'm happy to play him off his stated handicap and don't doubt his integrity.
Tony, although he hasn't played in any medals, has only recently acquired his official handicap. is it 2/3 month T?
If he had had the same handicap for a year or so without adjustment that's a different issue. He handed in the 3 cards all legit. He got the handicap, legit. He PM'd me and told me what he had been given. The bottom line is that the handicap he was given WAS a true reflection of how he played at the time. He has said to me on many ocassions that he felt it was too high and said that he didn't want to win the prize but, he won it fair and square.
Would I doubt Tony's integrity? Absolutely NOT!
My official handicap is 22. Over the last few month's that has been quite generous.
I haven't played in a medal in the two years that I have been a member at the club. I can't commit to weekends.
I keep an online tracker which tells me, even though I have had some really crappy rounds & low moments over the last few months that my H/cap is 14. I shot a 79 at Normanby Hall the other week. The first time I playe the course. so off my "official" h/cap that would have been a net 57!! off my 14, it would still be a 65.
I won't reveal what I shot in the afternoon
Sometimes that round that just "works" happens, sometimes it doesn't
Lastly, I did say, given the conditions on the day, that someone, or more would come in with a really good score.
Being nomad myself, I'd love some kind of accurate handicap to play to, but have no software to do it with, or even knowledge of what to do with it even if I had it.
I'm not sure how long per day / week it would take to keep it up to date, but if it's not too onerous, and something simple could be used, I'd happily try policing it.
Obv if someone has more time on their hands, then no probs with them doing it either.
Is there a software package out there I could download and look at ?
As for who would use it - anyone who wanted to, I'd say. If you have a currant handicap, and are confident of it's accuracy, then use it. But if you don't have one, or know it's innaccurate, then a society / forum handicap would fill the gap.
I think here we are luckier than most, because we don't seem to have many ( if any ) handicap protector types, and most of us just want to play golf to as low ( but accurate ) a handicap as possible.
Like I say, it depends on time and how much brains is needed, but I'm definately up for it.
I'm not sure how long per day / week it would take to keep it up to date, but if it's not too onerous, and something simple could be used, I'd happily try policing it.
Obv if someone has more time on their hands, then no probs with them doing it either.
Is there a software package out there I could download and look at ?
As for who would use it - anyone who wanted to, I'd say. If you have a currant handicap, and are confident of it's accuracy, then use it. But if you don't have one, or know it's innaccurate, then a society / forum handicap would fill the gap.
I think here we are luckier than most, because we don't seem to have many ( if any ) handicap protector types, and most of us just want to play golf to as low ( but accurate ) a handicap as possible.
Like I say, it depends on time and how much brains is needed, but I'm definately up for it.
SS2
Tour Rookie
You could use Scoresaver 2 to track the handicaps of forum members for meets. I'd donate a copy to the forum for free for this very purpose if someone would run it .
It allows you to enter an unlimited number of players and you can use the standard CONGU handicapping rules or manual adjustments. For societies, a combination of CONGU and manual adjustments is the best bet. Agree a rule whereby in addition to all CONGU adjustments, each event winner gets cut by 3 strokes, 2nd gets cut by 2 , 3rd gets cut by one. That should help spread the victories around.
Andy.
It allows you to enter an unlimited number of players and you can use the standard CONGU handicapping rules or manual adjustments. For societies, a combination of CONGU and manual adjustments is the best bet. Agree a rule whereby in addition to all CONGU adjustments, each event winner gets cut by 3 strokes, 2nd gets cut by 2 , 3rd gets cut by one. That should help spread the victories around.
Andy.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
Thanks Andy, that means as a 3 times winner I get to play off 2.
viscount17
Money List Winner
TonyN, can you put in Supplementary Cards at your course?
We can and they are intended for those that can't compete in the medal to register sufficient scores, off the whites and witnessed.
We have to declare (and sign for) the round beforehand and use a stamped card which obviously has to be returned no matter what.
ps, they can be played at any time
We can and they are intended for those that can't compete in the medal to register sufficient scores, off the whites and witnessed.
We have to declare (and sign for) the round beforehand and use a stamped card which obviously has to be returned no matter what.
ps, they can be played at any time
TonyN
Money List Winner
I aint sure, our scores on comp day are entered into a comp which does it all automatically, its not set up on any other day, I dont know if someone will be willing to do it manually for me, I can ask.
Our asst and myself have comitted to playing as many comps as we can when he gets back from Turkey in 2 weeks. Hopefully, the tumble will begin!
SS2 thats very kind of you, and a good idea! I had no idea ss2 could be used in that way!
vig
Tour Winner
That is a fantastic gesture Andy.
I think, but correct me if i'm wrong, that if one of the moderators did it, others couldn't meddle. ????????
BTW I still want a copy, I just haven'y got around to applying.
RGDave
Money List Winner
I've actually been mulling this whole idea over in my head today.
I guess, if we were all being totally fair about our standard (turning up at society-type events) it would make sense to have either a) a 100% legit and frequently "moving" h'cap from our home club or b) a h'cap adjusted by ourselves on each and every game, excluding "gimmie" formats.
If I was to have two running concurrently, I'd simply cut myself based on the SSS and give myself 0.1 for every game outside the buffer.
So, let's say I score 78 off yellow in a bounce game, I'd cut myself 0.4 (4 under par, but only 2 under yellow SSS).
Then I'd be off 10.4 so would have to call it 10.
It's beyond me (and always has been) why given the arrival of computers....yes that's C.O.M.P.U.T.E.R.S. why I can't simply input every "proper" verified (signed) card for better or for worse.
If I turn up for a friendly, hole out and shoot 74 (as I did last week) how can I be disadvantaging anyone but myself if I get cut for being 6 shots under the yellow SSS.
I'd happily maintain two...but I don't need it really, since off the full length course at mine, my h'cap is done by the club/computer anyway.
I guess, if we were all being totally fair about our standard (turning up at society-type events) it would make sense to have either a) a 100% legit and frequently "moving" h'cap from our home club or b) a h'cap adjusted by ourselves on each and every game, excluding "gimmie" formats.
If I was to have two running concurrently, I'd simply cut myself based on the SSS and give myself 0.1 for every game outside the buffer.
So, let's say I score 78 off yellow in a bounce game, I'd cut myself 0.4 (4 under par, but only 2 under yellow SSS).
Then I'd be off 10.4 so would have to call it 10.
It's beyond me (and always has been) why given the arrival of computers....yes that's C.O.M.P.U.T.E.R.S. why I can't simply input every "proper" verified (signed) card for better or for worse.
If I turn up for a friendly, hole out and shoot 74 (as I did last week) how can I be disadvantaging anyone but myself if I get cut for being 6 shots under the yellow SSS.
I'd happily maintain two...but I don't need it really, since off the full length course at mine, my h'cap is done by the club/computer anyway.
