golf distance debate - your opinions wanted!

[duncan mackie]

A surprisingly good survey, although the question regarding ball selection was very weak - most will be looking for a compromise that involves most elements that make up their shot making (which you can't really get over).

I'm still of the view that the guy that sinks the putts wins; not the one that hits it the furthest. In many ways the Tours have created the distance issue by increasing the length of holes in an attempt to create differentiation amongst the players! Reversing that through equipment restrictions seems a backward step to me.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Done

My main issue in the pro game is that a lack of accuracy is not punished enough.

I don't think pro's should get "line of sight" drops (they shouldn't have been so offline that a concession stand gets in the way), or have TV crews help look for balls, and rough should be more penal when significantly offline.

Basically people like Phil Mickleson have been far too successful when you consider that he can barely find a fairway.

More courses set up like Le Golf National would make distance less important & accuracy more so.

 

[need_my_wedge]

More courses set up like Le Golf National would make distance less important & accuracy more so.

Exactly this. Butch commented on it a number of times over the weekend. In the US, the crowd are much closer to the action, meaning the rough gets trampled down and leaves easy lies for them. If they have the same issues as the weekend golfer, trying to find our balls in the knee high rough, with only their playing partner helping them out, the scores would be a lot different.

 

[fundy]

Well tonights winner on the PGA tour averaged 334 yards (1st in distance), maxed out at 360 yards, hit less than 1 in 2 fairways over 4 days (107th in accuracy) yet still made 28 birdies (1 every 2 1/2 holes)

Tells you everything you need to know about that (and plenty of other) courses sadly

 

[Tiger man]

No way should equipment be dialled back, that would just reduce people's interest even more. The courses just need setting up to punish wild play, as the Ryder Cup proved it can be done easily and the pro's look human again. More fairway cut offs with rough at 300 yards or whatever the hole was designed for to force lay ups and you have your old courses back.

 

[Roops]

Well tonights winner on the PGA tour averaged 334 yards (1st in distance), maxed out at 360 yards, hit less than 1 in 2 fairways over 4 days (107th in accuracy) yet still made 28 birdies (1 every 2 1/2 holes)

Tells you everything you need to know about that (and plenty of other) courses sadly

Pretty much why I no longer bother watching the US Tour unless it's a headline event. The European tour is so much more interesting with courses. We've had a treat for the last couple of months with the Ryder cup and British Masters on great courses that encourage reward "real" golf. Makes you realise what a load of tosh the US "Grip it an Rip it" Tour has become.

 

[OOB]

I don't follow golf well enough to remember the exact circumstances or year, but if I had to guess, it was the Open at Carnoustie or Troon. The first day was howling a bit and watching the pros play was, for the first time ever, like watching me and my peers. They were scouring through rough looking for balls, having to hack out 50 yards just to get onto the fairway again and a par was a good score. It was far more fun than watching them belt it in a way that I could never even hope to match

 

[Imurg]

Well tonights winner on the PGA tour averaged 334 yards (1st in distance), maxed out at 360 yards, hit less than 1 in 2 fairways over 4 days (107th in accuracy) yet still made 28 birdies (1 every 2 1/2 holes)

Tells you everything you need to know about that (and plenty of other) courses sadly

EddieP won at Walton Heath with an average of 288 yards (63rd and 40 yards behind the longest), 63% fairways (16th), 10 birdies and 4 eagles - 2 pretty fortunate ones too.
Just shows it can be done if the course isn't set up for bombers.

 

[User 99]

Sponsors and viewers want to see birdies and eagles not watch the top players hacking around like the weekend warrior.

 

[Coffey]

Sponsors and viewers want to see birdies and eagles not watch the top players hacking around like the weekend warrior.

I would rather watch someone shoot a 3/4 under round on a really tough course where par is a good score than someone shoot 8 under on a course where 4 under is a good score.

The US tour is so one dimensional at the moment, you need to hit the ball miles to have a chance of winning. There is no place for the people driving under 300 yards which I think is a bit boring to be honest. Yes big drives are good to watch but they need to be punished for being offline. There is absolutely no punishment at the moment and they normally find themselves on another fairway with a perfect shot into the green.

 

[User 99]

I would rather watch someone shoot a 3/4 under round on a really tough course where par is a good score than someone shoot 8 under on a course where 4 under is a good score.

The US tour is so one dimensional at the moment, you need to hit the ball miles to have a chance of winning. There is no place for the people driving under 300 yards which I think is a bit boring to be honest. Yes big drives are good to watch but they need to be punished for being offline. There is absolutely no punishment at the moment and they normally find themselves on another fairway with a perfect shot into the green.

I'd hazard a guess that if they were hacking about week after week the viewing figures would go through the floor, which isn't what the sponsors want which in turn would then effect the purse, which effects the players.

 

[Coffey]

I'd hazard a guess that if they were hacking about week after week the viewing figures would go through the floor, which isn't what the sponsors want which in turn would then effect the purse, which effects the players.

But they wouldn't be hacking it about. It would force a change in their approach, they couldn't just reach for driver every hole and rip it down there without a care in the world.

People would still make scores out there and in my opinion it would be more impressive and better to watch.

I guess some people just like watching scores being low rather than the battle against the course.

 

[HamiltonGuy]

I think with declining numbers in golf something has to be done to attract new members. Losing 20 golf balls in horrendous rough doesn’t appeal for a shot 10 yards off line. Pros and elite players hit the ball further. I have no issues with that.

In other sports elite sportsmen have a greater advantage due to coaching diet training etc golf is no different

 

[Hobbit]

Followed the pro's around Desert Springs last week in the Europro comp. I was surprised how many of them missed fairways. Their recovery play was excellent, often from bare desert scrub. But watching them miss fairways wasn't exactly entertaining. If it had been proper rough it would have been carnage.

 

[rulefan]

But watching them miss fairways wasn't exactly entertaining. If it had been proper rough it would have been carnage.

But surely the skill of good recovery shots was more entertaining than just watching a ball go a long way.

I reckon the difference between the US PGA Tour and the European Tour is the TV audience.
The US viewers are more interested in bombers (witness the number of longest hitter competitions over there). The only club they are interested in is the driver.
Remember how surprised they were when a few years ago Woods only used a 3 wood off the tee for virtually the whole tournament.

 

[Hobbit]

But surely the skill of good recovery shots was more entertaining than just watching a ball go a long way.

I reckon the difference between the US PGA Tour and the European Tour is the TV audience.
The US viewers are more interested in bombers (witness the number of longest hitter competitions over there). The only club they are interested in is the driver.
Remember how surprised they were when a few years ago Woods only used a 3 wood off the tee for virtually the whole tournament.

Isn't that in itself one dimensional? Some might prefer not to bother watching all aspects of the game but I prefer to see the full package. Good tee shots, followed by good shots into the green, followed by good putts. And by virtue of them being played from the fairway, more birdies follow. Playing off desert scrub and making par is good-ish, but it isn't great.

 

[Coffey]

Isn't that in itself one dimensional? Some might prefer not to bother watching all aspects of the game but I prefer to see the full package. Good tee shots, followed by good shots into the green, followed by good putts. And by virtue of them being played from the fairway, more birdies follow. Playing off desert scrub and making par is good-ish, but it isn't great.

But is that not the point?

If you hit the fairway you should be rewarded for the good shot.

At the moment they bomb it down there and are more times than not left with a clear shot to the green, normally on another fairway or shortish rough. There is no real reward for being accurate anymore, you need to be long over accurate. If you make the rough more punishing then there will be a bigger decision to be made on the tee and you will be massively rewarded for long and accurate.

 

[User 99]

At the moment they bomb it down there and are more times than not left with a clear shot to the green, normally on another fairway or shortish rough. There is no real reward for being accurate anymore, you need to be long over accurate. If you make the rough more punishing then there will be a bigger decision to be made on the tee and you will be massively rewarded for long and accurate.

Indeed, it's called the modern game.

 

[Slime]

In my humble opinion, tournaments should be won at around -6, not -20!
I enjoy watching bombers smash the ball 300+ yards, but only shots on the fairway should give the player a decent shot at the green.
Proper rough, combined with one or two driveable par fours would surely satisfy both camps.
Who doesn't love a driveable par four?

 

[Slime]

I'm one who prefers a tournament to be won at around -6, not -20.
Rough should be rough and there should always be a premium on hitting the fairway.
I also love seeing a bomber hit a ball 300+ yards ........................ so, in order to keep the big boys happy, I'd love to see more courses with one or two driveable par fours.
This would surely keep both camps happy and, who doesn't love a driveable par four?