Golf committees are killing golf clubs....

[Foxholer]

Interesting article and observation, I'm sure we are all aware of unpopular decisions being made at times and that some clubs and thus committees are entrenched with an old guard, but how many members leave clubs due to the committee and its ruling?

Is it a huge hurdle to get things passed by them, are they frightened of change and as such hold on to draconian and outdated values, should there be more of a mixed age group throughout a general committee or all committees to give balance to the membership?

http://bit.ly/1gjLJLh

H'mm!

He's a Salesman with a product, that is neither unique, nor particularly special, to sell and he's not getting the results he thinks he should.

Perhaps he's going things the wrong way. Or hasn't done sufficient background research!

Oh! And I've just received my weekly offers from Direct Tee Times and Teeofftimes!

 

[Hobbit]

I have certainly learned this year that being on the committee someone will always complain about any decision or choice that is made - at our place it's always the same people and mainly ex captains or presidents but you will never please everyone

What used to really grind my gears was the a'hole that would see you on the first tee about to tee off and would come across for a whinge, similar to the one that would walk across a fairway to the hole you're playing to have a quiet word. If its a whinge, ask them to put it in writing. Amazing how many don't... 14yrs for me, now off for good behaviour.

Was always happy to listen to anyone, and explain why we did something, just not when I was playing.

 

[drdel]

For years I was an external and internal examiner for several UK and USA Universities for Undergraduate, Master and PhD courses and would suggest this piece of 'research' is fundamentally flawed as the first rule of business (and thus quantitative) research is that is based in objectivity with a sound scientific methodology. Clearly the researcher has a vested interest in the result as he wants to justify the idea to his backers - the preferred result is already known. I wouldn't be issuing a 'Pass' or remotely considering getting my cheque book out as an investor.

As a marketing mechanism it is hardly a new idea and many clubs already use websites that allow on-line Tee reservation, group booking, golf breaks etc. etc. To keep the cost to Clubs down the biggest issue is getting enough paid advertising to subsidise the proposed company's costs. Thus for the full management costs to be deducted from the green fee income would take a substantial cut. This might explain why 'committees' were not overly enthusiastic and the practical issues of double booking and priority allocation would give them a headache few would volunteer to take on. Even a 'one-man-band' (sorry for the non-PC term) marketing/brokerage agency will need income of at least £80k -£100k per annum to have any chance of survival; that's a lot of Green fees and client Clubs !!

Committees will always need broad shoulders because that's the nature of any vaguely democratic body so pot shots are easy to take.

What I'd like to see from critics of golf club committees is real suggestions for any better, pragmatic alternative.

 

[rosecott]

For years I was an external and internal examiner for several UK and USA Universities for Undergraduate, Master and PhD courses and would suggest this piece of 'research' is fundamentally flawed as the first rule of business (and thus quantitative) research is that is based in objectivity with a sound scientific methodology. Clearly the researcher has a vested interest in the result as he wants to justify the idea to his backers - the preferred result is already known. I wouldn't be issuing a 'Pass' or remotely considering getting my cheque book out as an investor.

As a marketing mechanism it is hardly a new idea and many clubs already use websites that allow on-line Tee reservation, group booking, golf breaks etc. etc. To keep the cost to Clubs down the biggest issue is getting enough paid advertising to subsidise the proposed company's costs. Thus for the full management costs to be deducted from the green fee income would take a substantial cut. This might explain why 'committees' were not overly enthusiastic and the practical issues of double booking and priority allocation would give them a headache few would volunteer to take on. Even a 'one-man-band' (sorry for the non-PC term) marketing/brokerage agency will need income of at least £80k -£100k per annum to have any chance of survival; that's a lot of Green fees and client Clubs !!

Committees will always need broad shoulders because that's the nature of any vaguely democratic body so pot shots are easy to take.

What I'd like to see from critics of golf club committees is real suggestions for any better, pragmatic alternative.

Hold on. This is a far too well considered contribution to this debate.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Committee members are on a hiding to nothing and most members don't have a clue what the role entails, the time it takes and how thankless it can be. Members think they know best

 

[Hobbit]

Committee members are on a hiding to nothing and most members don't have a clue what the role entails, the time it takes and how thankless it can be. Members think they know best

To be fair, on occasion, some do. When a committee stops listening to its members it misses out on a wealth of knowledge and experience. Members will soon lose faith if they feel they're being ignored.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

To be fair, on occasion, some do. When a committee stops listening to its members it misses out on a wealth of knowledge and experience. Members will soon lose faith if they feel they're being ignored.

I agree but there are far more occasions where you get the same faces at the weekend in the same groups they've played in for decades, and who will moan about the state of the course, clubhouse, prices, etc regardless orf what the club does. However, there are times when members input, constructively, can make a difference and of course a club needs to listen. Hard to get past the moans and groans to find the nuggets though

 

[Deleted member 15344]

To be fair, on occasion, some do. When a committee stops listening to its members it misses out on a wealth of knowledge and experience. Members will soon lose faith if they feel they're being ignored.

Spot on Brian - committee still need to use their ears as well as their mouths and always have to listen to what the members say

 

[Fish]

I wonder if the wannabe young businessman was/is actually a member anywhere himself and if so, what was his experience with his own committee? I'd also like to know some numbers, how many clubs liked it in principal to take to committee and then poo poo'd it? I see he's from Aylesbury, speaks volumes

 

[MichelleBrown]

and impossible to find!!

I've Googled The Golf Bundle and nothing, other than some start up pages for something in Minnesota

Isn't it them? http://www.bizdb.co.uk/company/the-golf-bundle-ltd-09148173/

When you look into the company filings, it says that the director is indeed mr Tom Bowen. However, there seems to be no link either

 

[Fish]

Isn't it them? http://www.bizdb.co.uk/company/the-golf-bundle-ltd-09148173/

When you look into the company filings, it says that the director is indeed mr Tom Bowen. However, there seems to be no link either

Yes it is, all that is though like the many sites similar, is the limited company files and details, or when he files any in 2016, although I expect there to be no income so it could just be a shelved a limited account status. Still absolutely no record of a website for his "business" (loose term) which he has stated the [bulk] of his grant went on!

Do these departments that issue these grants not check to see proof of where the money to self start has indeed gone?

 

[need_my_wedge]

Working on a committee of any club for nowt other than the pleasure is a thankless task - giving up hours of personal time for the benefit of others and suffering. As has been mentioned above, you'll never please everyone, there are always those that will disagree or moan at decisions. The only thing that you can do is try your best for the good of the club concerned, not everyone wants what's best for the club, only what's best for them. I'm sure our committee have made decisions that I haven't agreed with, but overall, I feel they do a fantastic job for the club, not every club will be so lucky.

With regards to the chap in the article and his business idea - nothing new there. About 8 or 9 years ago I was playing golf under a similar scheme run buy PGA City Golf (http://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/news-and-events/course-news/2009/august/pga-city-golf-is-a-huge-hit/) - you bought a 2 year package as a business that gave you 8 rounds of golf a month at a chosen club (from their participating clubs). I think there were slight restrictions on playing times, but they never affected me, you could use the 8 rounds in a number of ways, i.e. all me or take a friend(s), you just had a stamp card that they marked for each round used that month, once full you waited until next month, any rounds not used were lost. I played at Hazlemere in High Wycombe for 2 seasons quite happily. It wasn't a bad deal for the golfer either, I think we paid £800 for the two years, worked out around £4 a round..... Can't see how the club made any money on that , I don't know how many of those packages were used at the club, but we were low maintenance. Am pretty sure that PGA City Golf went down a few years back now though.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Working on a committee of any club for nowt other than the pleasure is a thankless task - giving up hours of personal time for the benefit of others and suffering. As has been mentioned above, you'll never please everyone, there are always those that will disagree or moan at decisions. The only thing that you can do is try your best for the good of the club concerned, not everyone wants what's best for the club, only what's best for them. I'm sure our committee have made decisions that I haven't agreed with, but overall, I feel they do a fantastic job for the club, not every club will be so lucky.

With regards to the chap in the article and his business idea - nothing new there. About 8 or 9 years ago I was playing golf under a similar scheme run buy PGA City Golf (http://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/news-and-events/course-news/2009/august/pga-city-golf-is-a-huge-hit/) - you bought a 2 year package as a business that gave you 8 rounds of golf a month at a chosen club (from their participating clubs). I think there were slight restrictions on playing times, but they never affected me, you could use the 8 rounds in a number of ways, i.e. all me or take a friend(s), you just had a stamp card that they marked for each round used that month, once full you waited until next month, any rounds not used were lost. I played at Hazlemere in High Wycombe for 2 seasons quite happily. It wasn't a bad deal for the golfer either, I think we paid £800 for the two years, worked out around £4 a round..... Can't see how the club made any money on that , I don't know how many of those packages were used at the club, but we were low maintenance. Am pretty sure that PGA City Golf went down a few years back now though.

BiB - I agree 100% and will in time put myself forward.

My club signed up for PGA City Golf - a bit of a mess all round I'm afraid - and we made diddly squat money - certainly not when balanced against what it 'cost' us. At times having groups of guys swanning around acting like they owned the club didn't go down well with members either.