GM Article - Handicap System Ruining Comps for Low Handicaps

[Deleted member 15717]

I don’t want to.
I think they should be banned and are a cheats charter!

All my scores are competition scores.

Ah ok…so you complain/mention that handicaps can’t be treated as a show of form like EG want…but then don’t want to do GP cards, which would help your index show recent form.

Gotcha

 

[LincolnShep]

I don’t want to.
I think they should be banned and are a cheats charter!

All my scores are competition scores.

"I don't want to" is perfectly fine, it's your choice, I doubt anyone is going to pull you up for only submitting competition scores. They might scratch their heads and ponder why you're deliberately making it harder for yourself, but that's entirely your prerogative. However, your decision to ignore the handicapping guidelines may disadvantage you when competing against someone who has followed the guidelines.

 

[harpo_72]

"I don't want to" is perfectly fine, it's your choice, I doubt anyone is going to pull you up for only submitting competition scores. They might scratch their heads and ponder why you're deliberately making it harder for yourself, but that's entirely your prerogative. However, your decision to ignore the handicapping guidelines may disadvantage you when competing against someone who has followed the guidelines.

I think that’s exactly it, if you don’t 100% participate you really can’t complain about the situation. I don’t think it’s easy to conceal fixing it’s all pretty obvious to everyone and if you look at rounds you can see the holes they are fixing.

 

[Alan Clifford]

I still have a score from October in my 20, I am a member at two clubs and play both their medals (plus opens), it's mid-May, hardly unrelaistic that someone has scores from last year still on their record.

Strewth, my 20th score is dated 3rd April, 2024.

 

[nickjdavis]

That’s how easy it is to Get a shot back.
All above board though

To be fair....that can only easily happen if the next score to drop off is significantly better than the rest....in this case it was 5 shots better.

Another 2 bad rounds could see him go up another 0.5 but after that he would need to play 5 more bad rounds to go up another 0.3.

 

[Orikoru]

To be fair....that can only easily happen if the next score to drop off is significantly better than the rest....in this case it was 5 shots better.

Another 2 bad rounds could see him go up another 0.5 but after that he would need to play 5 more bad rounds to go up another 0.3.

He still absolutely did it on purpose though from what you said. In the old system it would have been impossible. To be able to consciously know that four bad scores will put your handicap up a shot, and then deliberately do that without sanction, is a massive flaw in the system to say the least.

 

[nickjdavis]

He still absolutely did it on purpose though from what you said. In the old system it would have been impossible. To be able to consciously know that four bad scores will put your handicap up a shot, and then deliberately do that without sanction, is a massive flaw in the system to say the least.

I only reported the facts that he played four times in the last few days and his best score dropped off as a result....the inference that he deliberately scored badly so his handicap went up is yours and yours alone.

 

[rosecott]

He still absolutely did it on purpose though from what you said. In the old system it would have been impossible. To be able to consciously know that four bad scores will put your handicap up a shot, and then deliberately do that without sanction, is a massive flaw in the system to say the least.

The Handicap Committee has the tools:

Before making any adjustment to a player’s Handicap Index, the Handicap Committee should carefully consider all available evidence, including:

Where it has been determined that a player’s actions are for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage.

 

[Orikoru]

The Handicap Committee has the tools:

Before making any adjustment to a player’s Handicap Index, the Handicap Committee should carefully consider all available evidence, including:

Where it has been determined that a player’s actions are for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage.

Obviously you can't prove anything.

 

[clubchamp98]

"I don't want to" is perfectly fine, it's your choice, I doubt anyone is going to pull you up for only submitting competition scores. They might scratch their heads and ponder why you're deliberately making it harder for yourself, but that's entirely your prerogative. However, your decision to ignore the handicapping guidelines may disadvantage you when competing against someone who has followed the guidelines.

I don’t have a problem with genuine golfers putting GP cards in if they want to.
But we were discussing a blatant cheat using the system to gain a shot .

My opinion is the system is to easy to manipulate if your that way inclined.
There’s many stories on here about it but they just seem to be accepted by some on here who can’t see a blatant flaw in the system.

Putting all the work onto Hcap comittiees is just passing the buck when most are just volunteers.

 

[clubchamp98]

I think that’s exactly it, if you don’t 100% participate you really can’t complain about the situation. I don’t think it’s easy to conceal fixing it’s all pretty obvious to everyone and if you look at rounds you can see the holes they are fixing.

I never had a choice to join WHS.
If I want to play competition golf I must comply.
It was forced on me.
That dosnt mean I have to like it.

 

[clubchamp98]

I only reported the facts that he played four times in the last few days and his best score dropped off as a result....the inference that he deliberately scored badly so his handicap went up is yours and yours alone.

You did say he “sneakily got another shot”

That’s the problem.
It’s his prerogative to put cards in when he chooses.
But can be seen as manipulation or not depending on your view of GP cards!

 

[harpo_72]

I never had a choice to join WHS.
If I want to play competition golf I must comply.
It was forced on me.
That dosnt mean I have to like it.

None of us got a choice, it’s life , some person thinks they know best and that decision is foisted on to the rest of us.
Just have to get on with it and call the cheats out … which happens at my club, with name dropping and so on

 

[Junior]

Or you could win the event and go out 1.0 shots (which I have seen several times) and the guy who came second lost a shot.....
a very fair system N

I shot 69 3 under nett saturday and went from 6.7 to 6.6. Because I was losing a score from 5 months ago.
I have played in every weekend comp.
Hardly current form .

Ahhh yes, but if you submitted a card for handicap every time you play (and sucked the life out of social golf) you would have got a bigger reduction …..

 

[Springveldt]

Strewth, my 20th score is dated 3rd April, 2024.

Retired?

 

[Springveldt]

I only reported the facts that he played four times in the last few days and his best score dropped off as a result....the inference that he deliberately scored badly so his handicap went up is yours and yours alone.

The evidence would suggest that handicap manipulation is in play. Maybe he’s just started playing more golf though and it going to start putting in regular scores.

If I was betting man though I’d bet on manipulation.

 

[bobmac]

The evidence would suggest that handicap manipulation is in play. Maybe he’s just started playing more golf though and it going to start putting in regular scores.

If I was betting man though I’d bet on manipulation.

Occam's razor... if you have two competing ideas to explain the same phenomenon, you should prefer the simpler one.

 

[clubchamp98]

Ahhh yes, but if you submitted a card for handicap every time you play (and sucked the life out of social golf) you would have got a bigger reduction …..

I have never put a supplementary or GP card in in 40yrs.
Social golf is just that for me.
I don’t want a card in my hand every time I set foot on a golf course.

Suits some but not me.

 

[RichA]

I have never put a supplementary or GP card in in 40yrs.
Social golf is just that for me.
I don’t want a card in my hand every time I set foot on a golf course.

Suits some but not me.

I used to but not any more.
Social golf for me is high tariff hero shots, longest drive challenges on inappropriate holes and flop shot attempts when a sensible bump and run would be the right choice. We don't play for money. If I submitted those rounds my HI would rise by half a dozen shots.
On the rare occasions I enter solo comps I play boring attritional golf and score around my HI. I want to be competitive but not by having an inflated handicap.

 

[Orikoru]

I used to but not any more.
Social golf for me is high tariff hero shots, longest drive challenges on inappropriate holes and flop shot attempts when a sensible bump and run would be the right choice. We don't play for money. If I submitted those rounds my HI would rise by half a dozen shots.
On the rare occasions I enter solo comps I play boring attritional golf and score around my HI. I want to be competitive but not by having an inflated handicap.

I never do either, but now that I have matches coming up and I'm not playing anywhere near my handicap, I wish I had!