GM Article - Handicap System Ruining Comps for Low Handicaps

S

Springveldt

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
1,837
Visit site
AussieKB said:
I always thought the better you got the more chance of winning you had, who knew the worse you are the more chance you have of winning.
Click to expand...
Like the doubles game me and partner lost. After we conceded the winning putt on 17 the opponents said "we are just getting too many shots".

Now I know both me and my partner have accurate handicaps and we both played below our handicaps that day, so what does that say about or opponents?
 
wjemather

wjemather

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
3,366
Location
Bristol
Visit site
D-S said:
We have quite a few players whose past 20 scores have all been since January of this year. A lot of them feature on the soft/hard cap report as their indexes have increased by 3 or more shots. This is because conditions over the past few months have been incredibly challenging, with courses playing extremely long, green surrounds being muddy and greens being not very flat. These players have been doing well, unsurprisingly, in recent competitions. The system is beginning to rebalance their indexes as they submit better scores.
Click to expand...
Submission of scores for handicapping should be suspended when the course is in exceptionally poor condition.
 
B

Biggleswade Blue

Head Pro
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
756
Visit site
Springveldt said:
Like the doubles game me and partner lost. After we conceded the winning putt on 17 the opponents said "we are just getting too many shots".

Now I know both me and my partner have accurate handicaps and we both played below our handicaps that day, so what does that say about or opponents?
Click to expand...
I too hae suffered criticism at the end of a match (and one on memorable ocassion, throughout) for the number of shots I get. Despite the matches invariably reaching the 17th or 18th hole.
 
harpo_72

harpo_72

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
5,637
Visit site
My last score is June 2022… my course time is limited due to family life and my wife’s work being weekend biased
 
clubchamp98

clubchamp98

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
16,698
Location
Liverpool
Visit site
My score is low because in my list of 20 from 16/09/2023 to 13/04/2024 we had no Qualification comps.

I was in the USA all of October so missed some then
We go to PL in general area so no Q comps over winter.


It’s why imo the system dosnt reflect current form as we were told it would.
Unless your putting in lots of GP cards , but my course dosnt let me do that.
Scores from years ago are impacting HI.
 
N

nickjdavis

Head Pro
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
3,516
Visit site
Got a singles match tomorrow...opponents 20th score dates from August 2022....he has played 4 times in the last nine days and managed to knock his best score from July 2022 off his record. Sneakily getting another shot. :D

Maybe i can fit in 2 rounds this afternoon/evening and knock my best score (from July last year) off my record to redress the balance :D

One shot isn't going to make much difference....if I cant beat him giving him 13 shots then its quite likely that I wouldn't be beating him if i only was giving up 12!!....watch me now go and lose on the 18th!!! :D:D:D
 
R

RichA

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
3,355
Location
UK
Visit site
Springveldt said:
Like the doubles game me and partner lost. After we conceded the winning putt on 17 the opponents said "we are just getting too many shots".

Now I know both me and my partner have accurate handicaps and we both played below our handicaps that day, so what does that say about or opponents?
Click to expand...
That either they also played below their handicaps or they just dovetailed better than you. If it went to the 17th it can't have been a mismatch.
If you had been playing lower handicappers than yourselves in that match and had won playing below your handicaps, would your opponents have been justified in suggesting that the handicap system favoured you unfairly?
 
D

D-S

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
3,328
Location
Bristol
Visit site
wjemather said:
Submission of scores for handicapping should be suspended when the course is in exceptionally poor condition.
Click to expand...
Agreed but there is no consistent opinion/definition of 'exceptionally poor'.

Course ratings are based on summer conditions which (dependent on elevation, terrain and slope factors) includes 20 yards of roll on fairways as well as no doubt a roll factor on 2nd and 3rd shots. Typically this winter there has been negligible roll. Plus the ball carry is no doubt based on 'normal temperatures' not below 10 degrees. Length is the largest component of absolute Course Rating, most courses are playing significantly longer in December - March than in May-Septemeber.
If we rated courses in January their effective playing length would be dramatically longer resulting in far higher CR, differences which are not adjusted fully for in PCC.
So it is not surprising that a player who submits cards all the way thorough a British winter on a parkland course will see an increase to their HI - this is definitely the case this year at my club.
 
S

Springveldt

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
1,837
Visit site
RichA said:
That either they also played below their handicaps or they just dovetailed better than you. If it went to the 17th it can't have been a mismatch.
If you had been playing lower handicappers than yourselves in that match and had won playing below your handicaps, would your opponents have been justified in suggesting that the handicap system favoured you unfairly?
Click to expand...
It only went to 17 because we dovetailed well and we were actually either 1 or 2 under gross betterball. We were 3 down after 7 and they were a gross +2 and +4 while getting 13 and 17 shots (90% handicap allowance).

We were warned before we went out by multiple people that we had no chance as the pair rarely play club competitions but play lots of opens. The high handicapper was a better putter than my partner who is a scratch player. He made 5 out of 5 from 5-7 foot when it was for a half or to win the hole and the other guy was a 14 handicap I think and he was longer than me off the tee and only about 10 yards behind my partner who swings it at 110mph and carries it 265.

As they said, too many shots. Maybe they just had a good day but the fact we were warned before the match makes me think not.
 
clubchamp98

clubchamp98

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
16,698
Location
Liverpool
Visit site
nickjdavis said:
Got a singles match tomorrow...opponents 20th score dates from August 2022....he has played 4 times in the last nine days and managed to knock his best score from July 2022 off his record. Sneakily getting another shot. :D

Maybe i can fit in 2 rounds this afternoon/evening and knock my best score (from July last year) off my record to redress the balance :D

One shot isn't going to make much difference....if I cant beat him giving him 13 shots then its quite likely that I wouldn't be beating him if i only was giving up 12!!....watch me now go and lose on the 18th!!! :D:D:D
Click to expand...
That’s how easy it is to Get a shot back.
All above board though 😳
 
W

Wabinez

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
3,456
Visit site
clubchamp98 said:
Preffered lies through the general area. This is not allowed under GP cards as far as I know.
We then play mainly team games through winter months!
Click to expand...
They aren’t…but I assume it isn’t preferred through the general area all year round? So you can do GP cards now?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top