GM Article - Handicap System Ruining Comps for Low Handicaps

[Slab]

"It’s the only sport where mediocrity is rewarded. No one should ever have more than one shot a hole.”

Its comments like this that'll mean a lot of folks won't take his concerns seriously. If he can't voice his issues (which may be valid) with respect to his peers & fellow players & without disparaging them. Who, along with Sam, keep the club he plays at open & running then he'll get limited sympathy & understanding

I took time to get past the ridiculous strapline and read the rest of it and as with many low handicap whs gripes, his issue seems to be fully resolvable with divisions and recognition of lowest gross in every comp (pretty fair expectations to have tbh) but ... These are issues that have nothing to do with WHS and everything to with his comp committee (which he is probably partly responsible for appointing!)

 

[NearHull]

"It’s the only sport where mediocrity is rewarded. No one should ever have more than one shot a hole.”

Its comments like this that'll mean a lot of folks won't take his concerns seriously. If he can't voice his issues (which may be valid) with respect to his peers & fellow players & without disparaging them. Who, along with Sam, keep the club he plays at open & running then he'll get limited sympathy & understanding

I took time to get past the ridiculous strapline and read the rest of it and as with many low handicap whs gripes, his issue seems to be fully resolvable with divisions and recognition of lowest gross in every comp (pretty fair expectations to have tbh) but ... These are issues that have nothing to do with WHS and everything to with his comp committee (which he is probably partly responsible for appointing!)

Doesn’t some forms of horse racing have handicaps?

 

[SteveJay]

Doesn’t some forms of horse racing have handicaps?

Very true, but in fairness, the favoured/better horses generally win.

Like it or not, the golf handicap system does reward mediocrity. It aims to allow those that play infrequently and or lack significant skills, to compete with good players. That in itself is a good thing in terms of inclusivity in competitions etc.

However, many players, apart from those like me, who strive to get their handicap down as low as possible, more for personal pride and satisfaction than for the potential rewards in competitions, relish the thought of their handicap going up and getting an extra few shots.

 

[Hobbit]

Golfers have been winning singles stablefords with 40-odd points for as long as I can remember, going back several different versions of handicapping systems. Handicaps are achieved by past performances, not future ones. Guy is off 26, shoots 8 under handicap and gets cut. That’s how it works. How do you give a genuine 26 handicapper a handicap of 18 and tell him it’s because you might one day shoot 44 points off 26?

The current system is more reflective of form, especially if someone is in a bad run of form. No more waiting forever for a handicap to catch up.

Some clubs post their results in divisions, and some clubs pay a nominal prize for best gross on the day. There’s not much else that can be done.

How often should a scratch handicapper win a club comp? Not that I ever was off scratch but I’ve seen plenty of occasions when I’d need to shoot a course record to win. Equally, I’ve won plenty of times shooting 3-4 under handicap. Surely a scratch player is going to shoot 3 or 4 under a few times a year? Hell, they’ve had to shoot that to get to scratch.

It’s a non-story.

 

[AussieKB]

Golfers have been winning singles stablefords with 40-odd points for as long as I can remember, going back several different versions of handicapping systems. Handicaps are achieved by past performances, not future ones. Guy is off 26, shoots 8 under handicap and gets cut. That’s how it works. How do you give a genuine 26 handicapper a handicap of 18 and tell him it’s because you might one day shoot 44 points off 26?

The current system is more reflective of form, especially if someone is in a bad run of form. No more waiting forever for a handicap to catch up.

Some clubs post their results in divisions, and some clubs pay a nominal prize for best gross on the day. There’s not much else that can be done.

How often should a scratch handicapper win a club comp? Not that I ever was off scratch but I’ve seen plenty of occasions when I’d need to shoot a course record to win. Equally, I’ve won plenty of times shooting 3-4 under handicap. Surely a scratch player is going to shoot 3 or 4 under a few times a year? Hell, they’ve had to shoot that to get to scratch.

It’s a non-story.

I have shot a course record twice at different course and both times did not win......1 in England and 1 in OZ

 

[Deleted member 23344]

No, the opposite I think. Course rating lower than par - certainly at my home club it is.

And mine … I’ve lost three shots.

 

[2blue]

And mine … I’ve lost three shots.

What? Is that just you at your Club? Disgraceful!!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

And mine … I’ve lost three shots.

I've lost 2 shots on our yellow tees (3 with the 95% nibble) and stayed the same off the whites

 

[PaulMdj]

Golfers have been winning singles stablefords with 40-odd points for as long as I can remember, going back several different versions of handicapping systems. Handicaps are achieved by past performances, not future ones. Guy is off 26, shoots 8 under handicap and gets cut. That’s how it works. How do you give a genuine 26 handicapper a handicap of 18 and tell him it’s because you might one day shoot 44 points off 26?

The current system is more reflective of form, especially if someone is in a bad run of form. No more waiting forever for a handicap to catch up.

Some clubs post their results in divisions, and some clubs pay a nominal prize for best gross on the day. There’s not much else that can be done.

How often should a scratch handicapper win a club comp? Not that I ever was off scratch but I’ve seen plenty of occasions when I’d need to shoot a course record to win. Equally, I’ve won plenty of times shooting 3-4 under handicap. Surely a scratch player is going to shoot 3 or 4 under a few times a year? Hell, they’ve had to shoot that to get to scratch.

It’s a non-story.

I think it’s highlighted more these days with the handicaps in Comps being over 18.

I’m not for one minute saying comps should be max 18, but can’t remember comps being won by people of 18 getting 44+ points to win on a regular basis, nowadays 40-44 may only get you top 10.

4BBB has been even worse, we saw 50+ points winning regularly over the last couple of years.
Not sure I ever saw those points under the previous system.

We have overall winner, 3 Divisions, and best gross, with players only able to win 1 category.

All the evidence is anecdotal, but this is being repeated across the Country.

 

[Neilds]

Are the examples given from before the Apr change as our S/F points seem to have settled down to around the 36 point mark being top 10 and not too many 40+ scores now.

 

[PaulMdj]

Are the examples given from before the Apr change as our S/F points seem to have settled down to around the 36 point mark being top 10 and not too many 40+ scores now.

We’ve only had 1 of each comp due to weather, 47pts won 4BBB and 41 won Single Stab.

 

[bobmac]

What I'm also certain of, is that no evidence has been provided to back up the theory. However, I have seen evidence to the contrary. I fully accept that there are probably 20% of competitions that low handicappers never have a chance of winning. That simply means that low cappers are even more likely to win the other 80%.

That's a hell of a leap.

 

[RichA]

Winning scores at our place so far this year have been net +1, net +3 in medal and 34, 35, 36, 39, 37 in Stableford.
We have smallish fields. If competition committees aren't adjusting the HI% allowance down for larger fields, as recommended by WHS, R&A and USGA guidelines, then it's the fault of the organisers, not the system.

If I want to guarantee that I beat golfers less skilled than me then I shouldn't be playing them in local recreational golf club Stableford comps.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I'm sure that as a low handicapper you might well feel that it's a valid point.

I'm also quite certain that the discussion is happening up and down the land. Fully backed up, and egged on with, anecdotal evidence.

What I'm also certain of, is that no evidence has been provided to back up the theory. However, I have seen evidence to the contrary. I fully accept that there are probably 20% of competitions that low handicappers never have a chance of winning. That simply means that low cappers are even more likely to win the other 80%.

That’s an interesting statistic


Do you have the results to show it ?


And what are you calling “low” and “high”


As an example all our boards comps - none were won by anyone in single figures , KO’s apart from scratch - all won by someone 10 and above - last year

The funniest thing is the 10 -20 handicaps always won the main club KO - but because there was a scratch KO and a high HC KO ( 18 and above ) as well they even then created another KO for the 10-20

In our medals and Stablefords - no one below 5 has won div 1

So far this year one board comp was won by a scratch player when the weather was horrific but the rest are carrying on the trend from last year

Scrambles - won by mid to high every single time


They did finally decide to do a “gross OOM” because they turned down doing a “best gross” - because they said - only 5 or 6 would win


I don’t really have a chance of winning any comp so I just play for fun these days anyway

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Maybe I am swimming against the tide here but surely it is simply about playing the best golf you can on any given day and seeing what that does towards getting the handicap as low as possible. I never go out thinking about winning (apart from the singles knockout final a couple of years back) as I can have my best round ever and someone can play better than me on the day and win the competition. To me, I'm not bothered what the winning handicap is. As long as I've played the best golf I can and I was competitive that will be good enough for me. Handicap cuts will take care of themselves and a win or place is an added bonus

 

[Orikoru]

Maybe I am swimming against the tide here but surely it is simply about playing the best golf you can on any given day and seeing what that does towards getting the handicap as low as possible. I never go out thinking about winning (apart from the singles knockout final a couple of years back) as I can have my best round ever and someone can play better than me on the day and win the competition. To me, I'm not bothered what the winning handicap is. As long as I've played the best golf I can and I was competitive that will be good enough for me. Handicap cuts will take care of themselves and a win or place is an added bonus

Perhaps this is just a mentality difference for someone who is off scratch or very low handicap. The mentality that gets them that low also makes them want to go out and win every event?

I think the 'problem' (if it is one) must be worse in Stablefords than medals. In a medal your high handicappers are going to have blow-up holes of 8, 9, 10 that take them out of contention you would think, whereas in Stableford it's just a blob and move on. If I was a scratch player (never going to happen but yeah) I'd probably not bother with Stableford comps and just stick to the medals. If the course is playing difficult then a medal tends to be won by a better player than the average Stableford comp I think.

 

[clubchamp98]

That’s an interesting statistic


Do you have the results to show it ?


And what are you calling “low” and “high”


As an example all our boards comps - none were won by anyone in single figures , KO’s apart from scratch - all won by someone 10 and above - last year

The funniest thing is the 10 -20 handicaps always won the main club KO - but because there was a scratch KO and a high HC KO ( 18 and above ) as well they even then created another KO for the 10-20

In our medals and Stablefords - no one below 5 has won div 1

So far this year one board comp was won by a scratch player when the weather was horrific but the rest are carrying on the trend from last year

Scrambles - won by mid to high every single time


They did finally decide to do a “gross OOM” because they turned down doing a “best gross” - because they said - only 5 or 6 would win


I don’t really have a chance of winning any comp so I just play for fun these days anyway

This mirrors my club.

I still think the very high handicaps are not the problem.
It’s the people who were off 12//20 under old system who have acquired a few more shots with GP cards who are winning.
I have heard in the clubhouse “ I need a few shots back to compete”

The system is a good one used properly unfortunately it’s to easy to manipulate.

 

[clubchamp98]

Perhaps this is just a mentality difference for some who is off scratch or very low handicap. The mentality that gets them that low also makes them want to go out and win every event?

I think the 'problem' (if it is one) must be worse in Stablefords than medals. In a medal your high handicappers are going to have blow-up holes of 8, 9, 10 that take them out of contention you would think, whereas in Stableford it's just a blob and move on. If I was a scratch player (never going to happen but yeah) I'd probably not bother with Stableford comps and just stick to the medals. If the course is playing difficult then a medal tends to be won by a better player than the average Stableford comp I think.

Yes but if your a club member and like competition golf your options are very limited if you stick to medal only.

I’m off 6 can’t really beat the scratch players but can’t beat the 12/20 handicappers.
We had 169 entrants on Saturday I shot 69 net and was 10th I was the only single figure in the top 10.

There’s no perfect system imo so everyone has a different perspective depending where you are on the handicap list.

 

[Teebs]

Since the April changes, our comps have been won by:

April Medal (Par 72)
Net 71 (Div 1) (77 lowest gross)
Net 71 (Div 2)
Net 73 (Div 3)

Major #1 (Par 72) - Stableford Comp
39 points (Div 1)
39 points (Div 2)

Sunday Medal (Par 72)
Net 68 (Div 1) (73 Lowest gross)
Net 69 (Div 2)

All played on Par 72, Slope 134, CR 71.8.

 

[Slab]

Yes but if your a club member and like competition golf your options are very limited if you stick to medal only.

I’m off 6 can’t really beat the scratch players but can’t beat the 12/20 handicappers.
We had 169 entrants on Saturday I shot 69 net and was 10th I was the only single figure in the top 10.

There’s no perfect system imo so everyone has a different perspective depending where you are on the handicap list.

Yeah spot on. Even as a 14 index there's comps I enter where I don't believe I can compete. I could rant on social media but I'd expect to be disregarded

I know my PH I know the spread of other entrants, I know the likely course set-up, comp format and course conditions and I know my likely scoring ability on a good day. So it's my choice to enter or not (mostly I do but increasingly I might give it more thought... but Its not the fault of whs)