Ge 2017

[Hacker Khan]

Yvettee Cooper on TV, " The Conservatives did not win the general election". Have they changed the system.

D Abbott school of maths.

You know you do seem a bit obsessed with Ms Abbott. I think the man doth protest too much...

As for the tories winning then depends on the definition of 'win'. If you purely define it as a greater number of seats than the other parties have individually then yes they won. If you define it as having a majority government so you can push forwards with your manifesto, be seen as strong in your discussions with brexit, the PM not to be seen as on borrowed time and not a person that will lead the party into the next election and and being in a better position than you were before the election that you did need to call, then probably no, they did not achieve any of the objectives.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Few weeks back prior to the GE I am sure I read a lot about it being preferable to have a strong opposition rather than one party with a large majority. Maybe all those posters changed their mind?

No, you can have a strong opposition to a party that does have a majority. Strong is not purely defined as numbers of MPs, there are many other factors that define a party or leader as strong.

For example TMay has more MPs, but I'd not overly define her position as very strong. Or stable.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Few weeks back prior to the GE I am sure I read a lot about it being preferable to have a strong opposition rather than one party with a large majority. Maybe all those posters changed their mind?

Very true....... There is nothing so scary as an out of control Tory government.
They are a couple of rebel UDP/Tory MP's votes away from an election.
This should be a fun watch for the next few months as the egos go into overdrive.

We now have the very thin blue line.

 

[Old Skier]

You know you do seem a bit obsessed with Ms Abbott. I think the man doth protest too much...

As for the tories winning then depends on the definition of 'win'. If you purely define it as a greater number of seats than the other parties have individually then yes they won. If you define it as having a majority government so you can push forwards with your manifesto, be seen as strong in your discussions with brexit, the PM not to be seen as on borrowed time and not a person that will lead the party into the next election and and being in a better position than you were before the election that you did need to call, then probably no, they did not achieve any of the objectives.

Not sure were I become obsessed but if that's the way of the TM obssesives so be it. If truth be know, we've all choosen our favourite pantomime villian.

 

[BubbaP]

No, you can have a strong opposition to a party that does have a majority. Strong is not purely defined as numbers of MPs, there are many other factors that define a party or leader as strong.

For example TMay has more MPs, but I'd not overly define her position as very strong. Or stable.

Am sure there is a point being made here, but not too clear what it is.

a) You do not think there is a strong opposition right now?
b) You are less happy now that the conservatives do not have a majority, than you would have been if they had?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

It looks like £2m is the ransom note from the DUP to prop up Mayhem's shoogly peg.

 

[Hobbit]

It looks like £2m is the ransom note from the DUP to prop up Mayhem's shoogly peg.

Thought it was £2bn...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Thought it was £2bn...

Of course it was ....sorry brain fart.:lol:

Millions, Billions, Trillions I am like The Chancellor, it get confusing at times.

 

[Old Skier]

Thought it was £2bn...

It's a maths thing.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/06/the-tipping-point/

Very good summary of present day UK politics by Craig Murray with some insightful posts to follow.

Actors playing politicians rung a bell with me.

 

[MegaSteve]

Yvettee Cooper on TV, " The Conservatives did not win the general election". Have they changed the system.

D Abbott school of maths.

If having to form an orderly queue to kiss Arlene's butt cheeks counts as a win then yes then the boys 'n girls [in blue] have the right to claim a victory... Whether that's any good for the rest of us remains to be seen...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

If the Tory party failed to gain a majority at Westminster they clearly did not win the election.
Just like the SNP with the Holyrood elections.

One of those facts seems difficult for a couple of posters to understand and one quite easy:lol:

 

[drdel]

If the Tory party failed to gain a majority at Westminster they clearly did not win the election.
Just like the SNP with the Holyrood elections.

One of those facts seems difficult for a couple of posters to understand and one quite easy:lol:

Warped thinking sir. The Tories won more stats than any other Party. Getting a 'majority' is merely a decision mechanism not a mathematical fact.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Warped thinking sir. The Tories won more stats than any other Party. Getting a 'majority' is merely a decision mechanism not a mathematical fact.

What's that quote, lies, damned lies and statistics?

In my head, nobody won this election. The Tories lost the least, but noone anywhere is calling it a victory.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Warped thinking sir. The Tories won more stats than any other Party. Getting a 'majority' is merely a decision mechanism not a mathematical fact.

Really, in my wee brain if a party fails to win a majority in an election they have failed. Clue is the word fail.

All of the parties failed. There were no 'winners'.

 

[drdel]

Really, in my wee brain if a party fails to win a majority in an election they have failed. Clue is the word fail.

All of the parties failed. There were no 'winners'.

Sorry 'Autotext' turned "seats" to 'Stats.

So if "...in your wee brain..." the fact that the Conservative obtained 318 seats and the next closest party only 262 seats means the Tories lost does suggest its pretty small! It would be interesting to see how your Scorecard reads

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Sorry 'Autotext' turned "seats" to 'Stats.

So if "...in your wee brain..." the fact that the Conservative obtained 318 seats and the next closest party only 262 seats means the Tories lost does suggest its pretty small! It would be interesting to see how your Scorecard reads

Oh dear, you seem to have taken over SR's mantle......for the sake of sanity I think we should agree to disagree.:lol:

 

[BubbaP]

...

As for the tories winning then depends on the definition of 'win'. If you purely define it as a greater number of seats than the other parties have individually then yes they won. If you define it as having a majority government so you can push forwards with your manifesto, be seen as strong in your discussions with brexit, the PM not to be seen as on borrowed time and not a person that will lead the party into the next election and and being in a better position than you were before the election that you did need to call, then probably no, they did not achieve any of the objectives.

What's that quote, lies, damned lies and statistics?

In my head, nobody won this election. The Tories lost the least, but noone anywhere is calling it a victory.

I think the politicians begin being misleading with phrases and then others follow. I don't really really think we can re-define the English language like HK is maybe suggesting, and CH above seems closer. You can define the terms of the contest.

I'd suggest a contest/race etc with a result can have two or three outcomes. Win/lose/draw (draw is sometimes not allowed.

Did Jeremy Corbyn win his constituency election/seat - yes he won.
Did Theresa May win her constituency election/seat - yes she won.

Once you move it up to GE level, then it is no longer about individuals (although we acknowledge the influence), so it is about parties and seats, and the question most likely moves to "Does any party have an absolute majority of seats?". This is a Yes/No response, not a Win/lose/draw.
The answer of course is no.

Is the concept if winning/losing even relevant to a GE then?
You could argue no. But if it is then it will have to about number of seats or numbers of votes.

My 2 pence worth.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

DUP/Tory alliance to form the new UK Government.

Everyone happy with that ?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Where the hell has £1Billion been found in these times of austerity?