Ge 2017

SiLH - any criticism of Corbyn for not taking part in the leaders debate? After all, he is leader of the Labour Party and as such should "lead". All he's done by refusing to take part is follow rather than lead.

I'm not that bothered whether any or all of them take part in the debates or not. It seems like we're going down the American route with this sort of thing. Why not go the whole hog and have Simon Cowell and a panel of judges hitting a button and a big red cross coming up for any poilicies they don't like.
 
ColchesterFC said:
SiLH - any criticism of Corbyn for not taking part in the leaders debate? After all, he is leader of the Labour Party and as such should "lead". All he's done by refusing to take part is follow rather than lead.

I'm not that bothered whether any or all of them take part in the debates or not. It seems like we're going down the American route with this sort of thing. Why not go the whole hog and have Simon Cowell and a panel of judges hitting a button and a big red cross coming up for any poilicies they don't like.
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He said he'd take part if May took part. He knows that no matter how well he actually did the likes of the Daily Mail would rip into him on anything they could - and without the opportunity for any balance with his main opponent for PM being present - why should he do that?

Actually given the May Manifesto maybe he should have asked for a late entry - I'm sure he could have shredded May's Manifesto
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
And so - no Great Leader on the ITV Leaders Debate and consequently no Corbyn. And no Great Leader to sell and/or defend her manifesto to the public. As Leanne Wood said in her opening words - was the Great Leader frightened about standing up, sell the manifesto and take the questions? Well given the reporting I have heard on her manifesto maybe she made the safe decision.

Is The Great Leader simply taking for granted that she'll get the majority of the votes on the grounds of Brexit and her being better than Corbyn in getting what she wants. She knew that she could put just about whatever she wanted in the manifesto and she'd still get the Brexit vote. But maybe she miscalculated a little - the Social Care payment policy does not seem to have gone down very well.
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If you want anyone to take you seriously you need to grow up a bit.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
He said he'd take part if May took part. He knows that no matter how well he actually did the likes of the Daily Mail would rip into him on anything they could - and without the opportunity for any balance with his main opponent for PM being present - why should he do that?

Actually given the May Manifesto maybe he should have asked for a late entry - I'm sure he could have shredded May's Manifesto
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Surely it was a chance for him to stand up and defend his policies while at the same time scoring some fairly cheap points about May being absent and not able to defend her policies.

Using your same argument - Theresa May knows that no matter how well she actually did people like you would rip into her on anything they could - why should she do that?

As I said before I don't particularly care about having a leaders debate and would rather see them each individually being properly questioned on their policies in an interview and taking unscripted questions from the audience. Fat chance of that happening though.
 
And if there are any youngsters (yes I know it is a old mans golf forum but you never know) out there that have not registered to vote, or anyone who can not be arsed to vote then watch this. And it does contain some very fruity language.

[video=youtube_share;shIOZdEzkiU]https://youtu.be/shIOZdEzkiU[/video]
 
SocketRocket said:
If you want anyone to take you seriously you need to grow up a bit.
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I think you might start respecting that some might have views that are different from yours.

What I have posted I heard both last night during the debate (did you watch?) and also from other commentators including some who support her.

So please tell me what aspect of what I posted it is that you don't like and is childish (as I have to grow up a bit).
 
ColchesterFC said:
Surely it was a chance for him to stand up and defend his policies while at the same time scoring some fairly cheap points about May being absent and not able to defend her policies.

Using your same argument - Theresa May knows that no matter how well she actually did people like you would rip into her on anything they could - why should she do that?

As I said before I don't particularly care about having a leaders debate and would rather see them each individually being properly questioned on their policies in an interview and taking unscripted questions from the audience. Fat chance of that happening though.
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Yes - he could have. Why didn't May take part? - because she felt she could only cause herself harm with little or nothing to be gained. Why would Corbyn take part if he couldn't attack May's policies when he knew that the Daily Mail, Sun, Express etc and would rip him to bits regardless of how well or poorly he did?
 
ColchesterFC said:
Surely it was a chance for him to stand up and defend his policies while at the same time scoring some fairly cheap points about May being absent and not able to defend her policies.

Using your same argument - Theresa May knows that no matter how well she actually did people like you would rip into her on anything they could - why should she do that?

As I said before I don't particularly care about having a leaders debate and would rather see them each individually being properly questioned on their policies in an interview and taking unscripted questions from the audience. Fat chance of that happening though.
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As it happens having heard (not yet read) a bit more about May's Manifesto there is a good fair bit of it I can actually support and agree with. Specifically I was delighted to see that one of her guiding principles is:

...(to) reject the cult of selfish individualism

If she can succeed in basing her premiership and delivering policies that back this up then I will be very impressed and will :clap: :clap: her loudly.

Unfortunately I think that policies based upon this principle will be difficult to sell to an electorate that has grown since the days of Thatcher as one that is encouraged to look after itself, right to buy, charity begins at home, taxation bad, keep the money you earn, why should I support those who don't work - wasters. Why should I...?

It's going to be a good one to pull off. There is a fair bit I have heard that I don't particularly like - but on the basis of that one statement

...(to) reject the cult of selfish individualism

I welcome (I think) the first Tocialist - Theresa May. It is a pity that so much of what drove individuals to vote to Leave the EU and that will determine what our country is like post-Brexit and the policies that May has to deliver were - IMO - based upon individual and rather selfish feelings

Let's see how I feel when I understand more of what she proposes and the detail - and how she gets on.
 
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The political editor on radio 5 late last night thought it was right that the two main leaders stayed away from last nights debate. Why would the two major leaders of the two major party's in the country want to get mixed up in the petty squabbles with the minor political leaders who's only agenda last night appeared to be to gang up on UKIP (no real problem with that) rather than debate any real issues. Is was all about putting their own message across and not debating. Some very childish people bickering on stage, anyone who thinks that's relevant in todays world needs to lie down in a dark room.

Much better idea taking place where the two main leaders can answer (if they have the courage) the real question's that will be put forward by the public. The public can then make up their own mind when they hear the answer.
 
Old Skier said:
The political editor on radio 5 late last night thought it was right that the two main leaders stayed away from last nights debate. Why would the two major leaders of the two major party's in the country want to get mixed up in the petty squabbles with the minor political leaders who's only agenda last night appeared to be to gang up on UKIP (no real problem with that) rather than debate any real issues. Is was all about putting their own message across and not debating. Some very childish people bickering on stage, anyone who thinks that's relevant in todays world needs to lie down in a dark room.

Much better idea taking place where the two main leaders can answer (if they have the courage) the real question's that will be put forward by the public. The public can then make up their own mind when they hear the answer.
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I thought last night's debate started pretty well but it soon degenerated into a willy waving contest.

As for an incumbent not entering a debate, I'd like to use a business analogy. A customer(voter) knows all an incumbent's failings. After all, they see them in real time and they are also highlighted by competitors - no friends in business. The customer(voter) hears how good the opposition are through marketing and the usual selling/relationship thing. The hardest business to win is repeat business. The customer knows you warts and all.

I understand why May didn't attend but, equally, this isn't a business. I'm disappointed she did show us she is robust enough to defend the 'business.'
 
Unfortunately I feel shows like last night, and it was a show, not a debate, does more harm for the political process. A straight forward Q&A which is happening for the two major party's is happening were ducking and weaving will be seen by all and highlighted by the presenter I'm sure.

All those that took part last night IMO did a disservice to politics in the same way as PMQs does now.
 
Old Skier said:
Unfortunately I feel shows like last night, and it was a show, not a debate, does more harm for the political process. A straight forward Q&A which is happening for the two major party's is happening were ducking and weaving will be seen by all and highlighted by the presenter I'm sure.

All those that took part last night IMO did a disservice to politics in the same way as PMQs does now.
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Ah, but it's what happens in America and we must always copy what they do
 
Hobbit said:
I thought last night's debate started pretty well but it soon degenerated into a willy waving contest.

As for an incumbent not entering a debate, I'd like to use a business analogy. A customer(voter) knows all an incumbent's failings. After all, they see them in real time and they are also highlighted by competitors - no friends in business. The customer(voter) hears how good the opposition are through marketing and the usual selling/relationship thing. The hardest business to win is repeat business. The customer knows you warts and all.

I understand why May didn't attend but, equally, this isn't a business. I'm disappointed she did show us she is robust enough to defend the 'business.'
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I assume you meant that she didn't show us :)

And I agree. If she is so sure of her ground and is so confident of her abilities (strong and stable) to stand up for the UK in front of the EU and sell our demands - then surely she can stand up for the Tories in front of the UK public and sell her manifesto.

If I am selling myself to a future employer as being good customer facing - the employer will not go just by a telephone interview or interview with recruitment consultant - he will expect me to sit or stand up in front of them to demonstrate my abilities.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I assume you meant that she didn't show us :)

And I agree. If she is so sure of her ground and is so confident of her abilities (strong and stable) to stand up for the UK in front of the EU and sell our demands - then surely she can stand up for the Tories in front of the UK public and sell her manifesto.

If I am selling myself to a future employer as being good customer facing - the employer will not go just by a telephone interview or interview with recruitment consultant - he will expect me to sit or stand up in front of them to demonstrate my abilities.
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She'll be doing that shortly, can't remember the date for her live appearance on TV in front of Joe Public.
 
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