Free drop or not?

[SammmeBee]

My take is this:


Ball in rabbit scrape, with tree in way of direct line to flag, so I have to play sideways, which I can do unrestricted. I get a drop from the rabbit scrape, nearest point, one club length, blah, blah, which takes me 3/4ft to the side of the tree. I can now play direct to the flag, so I shall crack on....

If though, I was in the rabbit scrape in a bush which meant I couldn't play any kind of shot then I think I am then in the 'clearly unreasonable to play a shot' bracket and would have to take a penalty drop...

 

[bobmac]

What would you class as abnormal ground conditions?

Not going down the "Seve line" are you Bob??

To paraphrase:

"Si eeets a scrape by a burrowing animal"

"Like a dog scrape Seve?"

"Si a dog scrape!"

"A dog is not a burrowing animal Seve, play it as it lies!"

The only time I saw Seve speechless.
Was it John Paramour? Can't remember now

 

[birdieman]

Not surprising that birdieman makes so many birdies eh?

Don't care for the cheating insinuation thanks. No one has proved who is right or wrong yet - seems to be some confusion on this and a bit of a grey area. I have not ever found myself in this situation anyway thankfully.
I've seen one guy take relief from a blue stake (his foot was touching grass cuttings) inside a large broom bush, got his one clublength relief so had a shot at the green. We argued that one a bit but he put his case and took the shot. Similar situation to the animal scrape behind tree in the OP.
A free lift is a free lift. Once taken it's hard to then say you can't hit it where you want. Accept I may be wrong with this of course.

 

[Sailor]

This can be quite difficult to understand and thus you should read Rule 25-1 and try to follow what it says. This is largely the situation (if your ball is lying through the green). First determine that the scrape is from an animal which will live in or take shelter there and a dog is not one of those.

1. You must look at the situation and say to yourself “If my ball was not in an abnormal ground condition (rabbit scrape) which club would I be using. The rule then says you should (not must) select that club to determine the nearest point of relief (NPR).
2. The NPR should then be found as the nearest point where if your ball lay you would be able to play it with no interference from the rabbit scrape ( and that alone for trees etc do not enter the picture)
It should be mentioned here that this may be an entirely different place dependant on whether or not the player is right or left handed.

3. It is then advisable to mark that NPR point thus found.
4. Now select your longest club (even a belly putter) and measure one club’s length in any direction and mark that point.
5. Determine that this point is not nearer the hole.
6. Now is the time to lift the ball from the rabbit scrape, not before, to eliminate any point of argument and possible penalty.
7. Drop the ball in the required manner to strike the ground within that distance. Upon striking the ground the ball may roll a distance of two club’s length further from the point where it first struck the ground. Thus you can, in extreme cases, find the ball almost three club’s length distance away even come to rest on closely mown area.
8. The ball is ready to play. And you may now change your club yet again to use whichever one you wish when making your stroke.
9. If, in carrying all this out you have avoided a tree or bush that may be in your way then so be it. That is your good luck. But equally if the NPR is in the middle of a bush then that is your bad luck and you must either play it as it lies or take relief under the unplayable ball rule which allows you two club lengths from the ball’s position or as far back as you wish in line of ball and flag or back to the place where you played the last stroke, penalty stroke.

Please remember that this only applies to a ball lying through the green and not one in water hazards, bunkers or on putting greens. There is no penalty involved.

 

[bobmac]

What if the player has hit his ball in behind a tree, down in the roots unplayable, but is standing on rabbit droppings when stance is taken facing the flag which is behind the tree. Free drop?

 

[Robobum]

What if the player has hit his ball in behind a tree, down in the roots unplayable, but is standing on rabbit droppings when stance is taken facing the flag which is behind the tree. Free drop?

No.

This exception would apply: "it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because of interference by anything other than an abnormal ground condition"

You'd have to be a genius to convince anyone that you will play through the tree so the scrape would not come into it.

 

[SammmeBee]

What if the player has hit his ball in behind a tree, down in the roots unplayable, but is standing on rabbit droppings when stance is taken facing the flag which is behind the tree. Free drop?

No...what Robo said...

 

[bobmac]

So, the player decides he cant play forwards but can chip out sideways. He takes his stance to come out sideways and is standing in droppings. Free drop?

 

[SammmeBee]

So, the player decides he cant play forwards but can chip out sideways. He takes his stance to come out sideways and is standing in droppings. Free drop?

Yes...same situation as first raised.....

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Someone not paid for a v-easy Bob - you seem a bit hardnosed today ! or is it a mission to get the forum up to speed on the rules

 

[bobmac]

Someone not paid for a v-easy Bob - you seem a bit hardnosed today !

Not at all, just fed up with this snow

 

[Region3]

Not at all, just fed up with this snow

I did offer in the 'Arrange A Game' section

Are you playing devils advocate because you think someone's got it wrong, or just to further our knowledge of the rules?

 

[Leftie]

Leftie, are you saying as long as I drop the ball within the one clublength from the nearest point of relief te ball doesn't have to stay there so if it rolls up to another clublength away I just play it? Didn't know that, I thought the one clublength from the nearest point of relief was all I was allowed.
Need clarification please.

My take was always -
Free drop - one clublength from nearest point of relief.
Penalty drop - two clublengths from the actual ball or straight line back from flag thru ball line or back to where you played your last shot.

BM The DROP is within 1 club length etc. Up to 2 club lengths roll is allowed. If it rolls past this point or nearer the hole then you do the re-drop procedure.

Sailor explained it far more eloquently than I or The Rules could.

 

[JustOne]

Well at least we learn something new everyday. I thought WITHIN 1 clublength meant that the ball had to stay within one clublength, not roll 6 feet beyond.

Normally you see a pro mark the position of the ball and the end of their club and drop behind that line....can't say I recall a ball rolling further away that wasn't re-dropped

 

[Imurg]

We learnt something else too.

Some of our rules, while being fairly easy to understand, when applied to certain circumstances make it impossible to get the right answer unless John P is stood by you all the time.

 

[backwoodsman]

See decision 25-1b/22

A ball is behind a tree and in a scrape - and a sideways shot is the only reasonable option. Is there relief - yes. And if the taking of relief "...gets the player out from behind the tree,then he is entitled to play towards the green"

What seems to have been confusing folk is the difference between the act of "playing a shot" and the trajectory of the ball after you've actually hit it. By and large, you get relief if something prevents a fair stab at hitting the ball - it's not really relevant where the ball might be going after you've hit it.

So, if its the tree (regardless of the scrape) that stops you swinging the club properly, then there's no relief. But if you <u>could</u> swing the club properly regardless of tree you can have relief from the scrape - even if the ball would have hit the tree half a nanosecond later had you played that direction.

 

[Ethan]

Your ball comes to rest in a rabbit scrape right behind a tree in a direct line between ball and your next shot towards the flag. Do you get relief from the scrape, if so how much and in what direction?

This has become a very controversial debate amoung a large group of players and officials at our club.

Any views and interpretations would be appreciated.

I think this is quite simple. If you are entitles to a drop due to a rabbit scrape or some other ground condition, and taking that drop legally has the fortunate side effect of giving you a better line to the green, that is your good luck.

 

[DCB]

Oh the joys of another good Forum rules post

 

[birdieman]

I think I've cleared it up - been consulting the R&A Decisions on the Rules of Golf book. Page 394 has the answers.

Basically if you are behind a tree and a burrowing animal cast interferes with your swing when playing sideways then you get relief and a free drop. If that relief offes you an opportunity to go for the green you can take it.

However if the animal cast only prevents you hitting towards the green (which is obscured by the tree) then you do not get a free drop, you'd play it as it lies and chip sideways probably.

So therefore if your ball is actually resting in a molehill or rabbit scrape then you can say I'm playing this sideways back to the fairway but I need a drop from this molehill/scrape then you can take relief and go for green if the drop allows you a line of sight forward.

That is what a lot of us said originally. The OP made no mention of the ball being in a bush

If a ball lies in a bush on top of an animal scrape you are not entitled to relief as the bush prevents a swing. That's on page 393.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Yep, I agree. All the decisions and the exception to the rule refer to it being unreasonable to play a stroke and give examples of being in the middle of a bush or in an indentation etc. Nowhere is it stated that the direction of play is relevant except in the one decision which says it is your good fortune if you improve your position due to taking relief.

The key question to ask is "can I reasonably play a stroke ?". If the answer is "Yes" (regardless of direction) then you are entitled to relief.