Fowler's tee shot on 17th

[Spear-Chucker]

I love it when weekend warriors question one of the best 5 players in the world. He's where he is because of his aggression, not despite it.

And he could have won by realising it's not the only option. Great players play to their strengths but know when to use plan B also.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Which ever way you look at it, it was a bad decision. He had 1 hand on the trophy and made a bad call. The other 2 both made birdie hitting 3 wood off the tee. It's the caddie's job to walk the course and plot everything out, they knew that downslope was there. They also knew that because of the height above sea level the ball was going much further.

 

[FairwayDodger]

It's an interesting debate. I was surprised when he pulled out driver but he knows what he's doing more than anyone on here so, while some see it the other way, I don't think it was an obvious decision and some of the criticism is OTT.

More than one way to skin a cat in this game.

Personally I think it likely he was worried about the water left and felt more comfortable in that regard with driver, which he fades more easily than 3w, probably not considering that hitting through the back of the green was even possible.

 

[UlyssesSky]

The caddy and him where working out distances and his 3 wood was bringing the bunkers into play.

Rickie has been outdriving the competition during most of the event. I guess that means it's safe to assume he wouldn't hit his 3 wood shorter than the other guys, who all managed to hit their 3 wood over the bunker and right in front of the green for the chance of an up&down birdie.

He'd been hitting his driver exceptionally well all day, and the chances of finding the downslope like he did were incredibly slim. He tried laying up in the playoff and look how that went. Should have just hit driver again.

He shouldn't have hit driver because he was hitting it so well. Best he could have hoped for was hitting it to the middle of the green (about 330 yards), which still would have been 30 yards past the pin.

Also, you could argue he might have hit his tee shot in the playoff better without the previous mistake on his mind (although that we'll never know).

He needed a birdie on either 17 or 18 to make sure so switching to playing conservatively wouldn't have done it.

But switching to playing conservatively on 17 and going for birdie on 18 would have done it. If he was afraid he might find trouble from the tee on 17, why not play it safe instead of going for a shot that could get him in trouble if he struck it poorly as well as if he struck it (too) good.

18 features a relatively low risk tee shot that leaves about 100 yards left to set up a birdie putt, like both players demonstrated in regulation as well as in the playoff.

I love it when weekend warriors question one of the best 5 players in the world. He's where he is because of his aggression, not despite it.

Being aggressive probably brought him to where he is, knowing when to play smart will get him to the next level. Until his victory at the players he was in a position to make a charge coming from behind, which meant he had little to lose and aggression was his best option.
Now he has to find a way to deal with leading more often, and find ways to bring victories home safely.

When you're leading by two strokes with two holes to play, both holes being birdie holes, and you know you can outdrive your opponent every time and your wedge game from about 100 yards in is second to none, hitting driver on a short par 4 with water left and long shouldn't even come to your mind...

 

[3puttmaster]

After watching it again today, the commentators make plenty of the fact that Fowler wanted to carry the fairway bunkers.

That said, from looking at the hole in it's entirity, a player of Fowler's calibre could quite easily have taken all of the danger out by playing extremely short off the tee. Almost to the point of only hitting it 150-160 yards, then wedging it on from there.

On a side note, years ago Fowler had a chance to win at Pheonix and laid up on the Par 5 15th when sat in the middle of the fairway. He received plenty of grief for laying up and I think that was at the back of his mind. Although the situation was slightly different due to the fact he had a 2 shot lead.

Throwing all of this into the mixer, I personally would still take a big look at the role of the caddy in all this. We know Fowler likes to be aggresive......but, his caddy should have thrust a 7 iron into his hand and said "Right side of the fairway Ricky, right side of the fairway", and then walked off to the nearest burger van!!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Throwing all of this into the mixer, I personally would still take a big look at the role of the caddy in all this. We know Fowler likes to be aggresive......but, his caddy should have thrust a 7 iron into his hand and said "Right side of the fairway Ricky, right side of the fairway", and then walked off to the nearest burger van!!

I would be really interested to know a pro's answer to this. To most on here this seems the most obvious answer but in the real world would the caddy be collecting a p45 shortly after? I once heard a story about Monty biting a caddys head off, he was a fill in caddy, as when he asked for a club on a potential lay up hole the caddy asked which one. He replied never to ask that again, inferring he would never lay up. Is that the pro's approach, rightly or wrongly?

Peter Alliss backs up your comment incidentally when reciting the story of Van der Velde, suggesting his caddy should have done just as you said on the 17th that time.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Ultimately it is the players decision and maybe Fowler went against his caddie's advice, I don't know.

Peter Alliss backs up your comment incidentally when reciting the story of Van der Velde, suggesting his caddy should have done just as you said on the 17th that time.

The VdV situation is very interesting. He gave an interview where he explained his decision and it was actually quite sound. He intended to take plenty of club (2 iron) and take the water out of play by hitting it long over the back of the green, get a free drop then chip and 2 putt for the win. His undoing was a solitary pole sticking out the top of the grandstand

 

[Big D 88]

Cast your mind back to the 2nd Rd on Friday on the Par 5 15th.

Rickie wanted to go for the green in 2, but his caddy urged him to lay up. He did so, played a great chip and walked off with birdie.

So clearly the caddy has the presence to change his mind - maybe on this occasion they both felt they were doing right

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

That may be so Big D but it's a very different situation from defending a lead with 2 holes to play.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

And he could have won by realising it's not the only option. Great players play to their strengths but know when to use plan B also.

A good point. Going for everything isn't always the answer and sometimes a plan B and a conservative approach will be the better play. I wonder if he'll gain that with age

 

[Oddsocks]

His caddy should have left the 3 wood on the tee box and started walking toward the green with the bag before Rickie arrived on the tee.

Caddy was very weak in my view in allowing him to hit driver.

Yes, ultimately, it's the player choice but I feel a strong caddy would have had him see sense and play lesser club.

:rofl: did you have a camera in my bedroom ??

As he took the driver I was effing and blinding and all sorts!

When I caddied as a kid I had a pretty good understanding of my players game and they would often as my advice. As a caddy as well as reassuring someone they have made the right decision if any doubt is there, your also the voice of reason when they are about to drop a clanger!

 

[Birchy]

9 times he has hit it in the water on the same hole during his career which to me seems like absolute bonkers for a tour pro.

He might be great for the game but he clearly isnt the sharpest, his caddie should be earning his coin as well.

Couldnt imagine some of the other top tour pros making the same mistake.

 

[Nashy]

He plays aggressively and some times your going to get stung, but as Rich Beam said about Danny Willet this style with there talent will win them more tournaments than it looses them.


He was trying to close out the tournament on 17, it was 305yards to the pin and he hit a great shot that took a bad bounce. If the ball had stopped 10ft from the pin and he knocked the putt in people would be saying it was a great choice of shot.


We can all look back and say he should of done this this and this but he's No4 in the world and so he must be doing something right.

 

[Joff]

Taking these risks gets him his score to compete. He was unlucky with the downslope. If it hadn't have hit it you'd be saying what a great idea. Small margins.

 

[craigstardis1976]

I wondered if the atmospherics and being so far above sea level played are part, as I am sure there was a graphic earlier showing his drive distances on the day had jumped by about 40 yrds?

Phoenix and Scottsdale are actually in a valley basin. While the surrounding desert mountains are a lot higher the elevation of Phoenix is only 1140 feet above sea level and the temp was around 23 degrees Celsius. It would have a very negligible effect on ball flight. In summer time when its 110 and 20% humidity then the ball can fly and run forever but not this time of year at all.

 

[One Planer]

Taking these risks gets him his score to compete. He was unlucky with the downslope. If it hadn't have hit it you'd be saying what a great idea. Small margins.

But he did hit it.


.... And he knew the down slope was there.

That's not unlucky, that's choosing the wrong club.

 

[UlyssesSky]

He was trying to close out the tournament on 17, it was 305yards to the pin and he hit a great shot that took a bad bounce.

His drive on 15 went 344yards, yet he was trying to hit his driver to a pin 305yards away. He needed to take 40 yards off that driver to get it close.

So..

He was unlucky with the downslope. If it hadn't have hit it you'd be saying what a great idea. Small margins.

Even if he hadn't hit that downslope that had his drive go 360yards instead of the usual 330+, he may not have been in the water, but still probably about 40yards away from the pin.

The result wouldn't have been as bad, but it still would have been anything but a 'great idea'.


Which leaves us with the realization:

But he did hit it.


.... And he knew the down slope was there.

That's not unlucky, that's choosing the wrong club.

 

[User 105]

Thing is he'll learn from this.

I know not exactly the same, but look at Rory from his Masters melt down. Before he'd just go for everything, great to watch, but ultimately cost him.

After, he learnt how to close out a tournament and not go for every pin every time. I can't remember which tournament it was but he had something like a 4 shot lead going into the final round and just put it in the fairway, hit the middle of the green and 2 putted almost every hole and picked off a few birdies along the way. Ok not exiting golf, but it was clinical and controlled golf and got him a comfortable win.

 

[FairwayDodger]

But he did hit it.


.... And he knew the down slope was there.

That's not unlucky, that's choosing the wrong club.

Only in hindsight. He had a few shot options, pros and cons for each and the one he chose didn't work out. That doesn't necessarily mean it was the wrong decision - the 3w didn't work out any better in the play off.

Surprised at those on here who think it was so cut and dried. It'd be very interesting to hear Rickie's take on it after the dust has settled.

 

[One Planer]

Only in hindsight. He had a few shot options, pros and cons for each and the one he chose didn't work out. That doesn't necessarily mean it was the wrong decision - the 3w didn't work out any better in the play off.

Surprised at those on here who think it was so cut and dried. It'd be very interesting to hear Rickie's take on it after the dust has settled.

Rickie's thoughts would be very interesting for sure.

This is only my opinion here. The 3 wood didn't work in the play off as a direct result of what happened in regulation play.

The hole hadn't changed so why did he not hit driver in the play off? Same length hole, same pin placement, same risks.

If he had flushed his 3 wood in regulation then gone into a play off, I would suggest his confidence on the tee shot would have been different with a different result.

I don't for one second see it as cut and dried, but I do think an error was made and there were easier ways to make birdie, or par at worst, with much less risk.

The hole was playing fractionally over 300 yards. I don't know how far Rickie hits his 4 iron, but I doubt if he'd have hit that it wouldn't have left him much more than a sand wedge to the pin.