spot on
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Ill deny it - the FA Cup is alive and kicking and doing well.
A bunch of big teams may use their squad in it but it's still the most prestigious club cup comp that will always envoke extra passion from fans and players.
A bunch of big teams may use their squad in it but it's still the most prestigious club cup comp that will always envoke extra passion from fans and players.
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
So how do you explain the Arsenal, Spurs tie?
Both clubs fielded strong teams and 50k+ in the stadium despite match being live on terrestrial TV..
Garesfield ACE
Tour Rookie
As a Newcastle United fan we haven't won a domestic trophy since 1955 and our "management/ownership" don't give a damn about the FA Cup.....well THIS fan would take relegation just to win the FA Cup,just to win ONE DOMESTIC TROPHY in my lifetime.
The top clubs will always sell out, and it was a derby. If they'd draw kidderminster or rochdale, no offence to you not think line ups would differ greatly?
Ok, it seems that nothing is going to change your opinion, which is all well and good as thats what makes the game so popular. but just to show i'm trying to base this on fact i thought i'd see if i could prove you right. Find this extra passion for the cup you suggest there is. So i just looked at EVERY tie played in cup this weekend, And then checked the attendance figures against their league averages. To see if the cup was as important as you suggest.
There were 30 ties that were played. Average attendances for them in the league 22916. Average in the cup 18192. Thats 20% less. That to me doesnt suggest that its thriving. Of the 30 ties. Derby, Blackburn, Grimsby, Kidderminster, Macclesfield, rochdale and southend all had increased figures. Now i'm sure you'll find a counter of sorts to that. But to me, if i was purely analysing statistics. I wouldn't find it all that compelling if i were trying to prove your point.
bluewolf
Money List Winner
If you were comparing stats mate, wouldn't you have to do the same calculation for the same FA Cup tie 20 years ago, then compare that to the average league attendance at the time. You should also check the comparative cost of tickets/Season tickets. Factor in the fact that there have been umpteen games on TV this weekend compared with maybe 1 or 2 20 years ago. Also, factor in the comparative state of the economy as well....
Let me know when you've finished fella. That'll be an interesting stat..
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
Well, it will be interesting to see the team Mr Wenger puts out against Coventry...
But my point was that the FA Cup still does matter even to the 'big' clubs...
Maybe not as much though when I started watching the game I'll concede...
Liverbirdie
Ryder Cup Winner
No doubt the FA cup is not as big a thing as it was in the 70's/80's and for 100 years before.
Most 3rd round games would be sell outs or pretty full, no matter who the opposition was in the 80's, even though crowds were generally in decline in the early 80's. This was still in early January and most would be pay on the day in them days. I can name all/most of the winners of the FA cup throughout 1970-1990 off the top of my head, and probably name the scorers also.
I could only guess at the last 10 winners. FA cup final was a full day watching telly. Mondays listening to the draw etc. Massive away support always helped to create the atmosphere, I went to Villa away as one of 14,000 for a live game. Semi-final tickets were as hard to get tickets as finals sometimes, and neutral venues were miles better than Wembley for a semi, apart from one (obviously).
Money has overtaken glory for some managers (normally mid-table or bottom of the table managers) and chairmen, but not for the fans, generally. Due to the "sack em after 2 losses" culture in English footy now, it is slightly understandable why they keep the main squads for the league.
Season ticket holders for most premier league fans are bought with a works bonus or saved up for these days, but lots of people struggle to find the extra £30+ for random games, until the later rounds especially.
It isn't what it was, but it still has a romance about it, still captures the imagination and to win it is still special.
Most 3rd round games would be sell outs or pretty full, no matter who the opposition was in the 80's, even though crowds were generally in decline in the early 80's. This was still in early January and most would be pay on the day in them days. I can name all/most of the winners of the FA cup throughout 1970-1990 off the top of my head, and probably name the scorers also.
I could only guess at the last 10 winners. FA cup final was a full day watching telly. Mondays listening to the draw etc. Massive away support always helped to create the atmosphere, I went to Villa away as one of 14,000 for a live game. Semi-final tickets were as hard to get tickets as finals sometimes, and neutral venues were miles better than Wembley for a semi, apart from one (obviously).
Money has overtaken glory for some managers (normally mid-table or bottom of the table managers) and chairmen, but not for the fans, generally. Due to the "sack em after 2 losses" culture in English footy now, it is slightly understandable why they keep the main squads for the league.
Season ticket holders for most premier league fans are bought with a works bonus or saved up for these days, but lots of people struggle to find the extra £30+ for random games, until the later rounds especially.
It isn't what it was, but it still has a romance about it, still captures the imagination and to win it is still special.
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If you were comparing stats mate, wouldn't you have to do the same calculation for the same FA Cup tie 20 years ago, then compare that to the average league attendance at the time. You should also check the comparative cost of tickets/Season tickets. Factor in the fact that there have been umpteen games on TV this weekend compared with maybe 1 or 2 20 years ago. Also, factor in the comparative state of the economy as well....
Let me know when you've finished fella. That'll be an interesting stat..
When you show me a stat based on all that, which proves the cup is more important to clubs then i'll make an effort to counter it. But some of your points as entertaining to you as your smiley appears to make them aren't needed. Cost of living for example, if a fan can afford a league ticket, why not a cup one? Why not forgo the league game instead? TV? There are plenty of league games on tv too.
bluewolf
Money List Winner
But the correct stat wouldn't be compared with league attendances. It would be compared with FA Cup attendances from years gone by. It may be that League games have always had higher attendances. That wouldn't prove that the FA Cup was declining. It may be (it isn't) that the FA Cup attendances are actually increasing, and that the gap between them and the League attendances are narrowing (they aren't). Technically, your stat proves nothing in relation to the original post.
Every one of my points are needed to make a valuable comparison. If you just want to make a "pop" comparison, then stick with the one you originally posted....
Oh, and
... Just because I like smilies, and this is an internet forum, so arguments are pointless, trivial and shallow...:thup:
Mattyboy
Tour Rookie
For me, Premier survival is much more important.
Winning yesterday was nice - its habit forming. But we wont put that team out in the league (which tells a story).
Relegation (and don't we know it at the Palace) leads to financial hardship which leads to administration which leads to selling your best players for peanuts (Watson and Moses ring any bells?).........
Winning yesterday was nice - its habit forming. But we wont put that team out in the league (which tells a story).
Relegation (and don't we know it at the Palace) leads to financial hardship which leads to administration which leads to selling your best players for peanuts (Watson and Moses ring any bells?).........
My point was that this year the fa cup has been deemed less popular/important than the league. I fall to see how the stats don't prove that. If more people buy coke (league)than pepsi (cup), pepsi is more popular. Now i could look over old data, but that would prove for previous years. And not this year which i'm discussing.But the correct stat wouldn't be compared with league attendances. It would be compared with FA Cup attendances from years gone by. It may be that League games have always had higher attendances. That wouldn't prove that the FA Cup was declining. It may be (it isn't) that the FA Cup attendances are actually increasing, and that the gap between them and the League attendances are narrowing (they aren't). Technically, your stat proves nothing in relation to the original post.
Every one of my points are needed to make a valuable comparison. If you just want to make a "pop" comparison, then stick with the one you originally posted....
Oh, and
So you acknowledge that attendances are decreasing, (even though this year actually had the highest 3rd round numbers thanks to big teams playing at home) and yet have said that the cup is still as special??
As i said, offer me some proof that the cup is the be all and i'll accept it.
as to the first post "Forest give West Ham a proper spanking :rofl: great to see Fat Sam struggling
Also Ramries has been booked for a shocking dive - good to see refs booking the players at last" You're right the stats are pointless.
bluewolf
Money List Winner
But the FA Cup has always been less popular than the league. Your stat proves that this hasn't changed. The discussion has evolved from the first post and has become more about the FA Cup losing its "specialness" (made up word alert). Numerous posts have been made about the fact that FA Cup attendances were decreasing, thereby proving that the "speciallness" was lost. The stat that you compiled showed a comparison to league attendances just prior to the FA Cup 3rd round. In my opinion, your stat wasn't really relevent... But, as they say, opinions are like asses...
Anyway, in my opinion. the FA Cup hasn't lost as much of that "speciallness" as people think. Yes it has evolved and people attitudes have changed slightly. But once you get to the 5th round, that old familiar feeling returns...
But that very statement proves the point. You say it's lost none of its specialness. Yet saying you only get it from round 5.
So why wait? Coz you don't care til your in with a chance of glory?
the magic of the cup for me used to start round 3. Now it's always a distraction. We have arsenal same week as Yeovil round 4. I know which game I'd rather win. Anyways, glad that your team are still in it. Maybe another cup run will make up for being in championship. It wouldn't for me, but each to their own.
So why wait? Coz you don't care til your in with a chance of glory?
the magic of the cup for me used to start round 3. Now it's always a distraction. We have arsenal same week as Yeovil round 4. I know which game I'd rather win. Anyways, glad that your team are still in it. Maybe another cup run will make up for being in championship. It wouldn't for me, but each to their own.
bluewolf
Money List Winner
Cheers.
In all honesty, I actually enjoy the Championship. It's a great league and every game is competitive. Being in the Premier League was nice for a while, but not really enjoyable if you're just battling for 17th every season. I'm proud that my club has their name etched on the old trophy. I'm also proud that we spent 8 seasons in the Premier League. If you ask me which I prefer, I'd say without doubt that it's the FA Cup win.
Oh, I'm also proud of the Freight Rover Trophy win and the Auto Windscreens Shield win. I was at both and they were fantastic achievements for my club..
Fair play to you, i was at wembley when we won the Johnstone paint trophy along with a record breaking 44000 saints fans. Maybe our expectations are different. I spend 20 years growing up with us battling coverntry for 17th and always loved it. Although mid table obscurity will be welcome this year.....Cheers.
In all honesty, I actually enjoy the Championship. It's a great league and every game is competitive. Being in the Premier League was nice for a while, but not really enjoyable if you're just battling for 17th every season. I'm proud that my club has their name etched on the old trophy. I'm also proud that we spent 8 seasons in the Premier League. If you ask me which I prefer, I'd say without doubt that it's the FA Cup win.
Oh, I'm also proud of the Freight Rover Trophy win and the Auto Windscreens Shield win. I was at both and they were fantastic achievements for my club..
bluewolf
Money List Winner
I grew up watching us battle bankruptcy, corrupt chairmen, relegation from the 4th division, constant ridicule from supporters of "bigger" clubs (who strangely enough were born in the same town as me), local media coverage that started every piece with the line "Wigan is a Rugby Town", Local Council officials who actively attempted to close us down, past it players who used us a pension pot.. Every day is a victory for us 'Tics fans...
I grew up watching us battle bankruptcy, corrupt chairmen, relegation from the 4th division, constant ridicule from supporters of "bigger" clubs (who strangely enough were born in the same town as me), local media coverage that started every piece with the line "Wigan is a Rugby Town", Local Council officials who actively attempted to close us down, past it players who used us a pension pot.. Every day is a victory for us 'Tics fans...
I can relate to the glory fans, work in an office wit 20 lads, al support team based quite far from kent and im constantly told my opinion isnt valid as i support little old saints. Albeit i've visited their team of choice's f=ground more than then. Our previous chairman was awful, we appear to have a good set now though. As for ridicule, look up Ali daeh and you'll see footballing embarassment!
bluewolf
Money List Winner
I remember the Ali Deah incident. Good old Souness, always capable of making a monumental rickett of even the simplest tasks. At least he only played once. We'd have stuck with him for the season...
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