FA Cup

[Deleted member 1740]

I maybe old fashioned but winning trophies mean more to me than than qualifying for the qualifying stages of the European Cup.

The board and owners will obviously want the financial windfall from the CL though.

 

[Papas1982]

Really? They thrashed Everton at Goodison in the quarters 3-0 and had the largest following their that day than they had taken to ANY premier league game that season. Wigan have poor attendances, we all know this, doesn't mean it meant less desire from those that attend.

And without going too much into the reasons why (i have two) I would love my Clubs to win a trophy above anything else. Promotion, champs league or whatever can wait until the year after. They have both had their chances to win and wimped out massively when it mattered.

Like i said, all well and good supporting your team when glory is in sight. And I've not said that there is anything wrong with their poor attendances either. I just said it epitomises why the glory of the cup has gone down hill slightly. 3rd round day used to be massive. Now its just another day of footy.

 

[Papas1982]

I maybe old fashioned but winning trophies mean more to me than than qualifying for the qualifying stages of the European Cup.

The board and owners will obviously want the financial windfall from the CL though.

Thats true, but would you prefer to win FA Cup or champions league? Coz you can only get in that by finishing in top four. hence why clubs put such importance on it.

 

[Odvan]

The difference for me is that wimbledon were run as a club for the fans. And not as a business. Look at wigans attedances. Its a rugby town. Its all well and good filling wembley for one day, and im sure it was a great day but show that support to your club the whole time and maybe they'd have inspired their team to stay up. As for the financial thing, that wasn't pointed at you. Its just a point often made by people to cover low attendances.

As for you winning the cup, all the best. And i'm sure many people may say the same as its a good soundbite. But if you were to go out, i'm sure "good we can concentrate on the league" and "europa league is a distraction anyway" will be used rather frequently.

Unless i'm misreading your post i Think you're mistaking the FA Cup winning club of Wimbledon to that of the new AFC Wimbledon. Wimbledon had no fans, no ground and no-one bank-rolling them. It was ran as a business, just one that wasn't sustainable.

And you need to stop harping on about Wigan, you're embarrassing yourself, unless of course you can display Southampton's attendances to be the same as that of today, now you're back in the PL. A quick search shows that they lost up to 13k (43%) of their fan base during one lower league year. Perhaps if they hadn't, it wouldn't have taken them two seasons to get out of Div 1 (2) after double relegation, eh....Unfortunately, an audience doesn't breed success. Success does. I'm in no way a Wigan fan but please, don't castigate their fans for 'having their day' when it's the same with almost every other Club in the leagues.

Its called 'being fickle'.

And to other posters, apologies for going off track.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

YOU may be gutted, but i know quite a few pool fans and i know none that dont crave the league and champs league more than anything else. Including the FA CUP. Of course what i say about wigan is relevant. They are current holders and yet their support for it as far as supporters attending has been mimal. How can that show that its alive and well....

I support Southampton as it goes. And was there watching us get run around by a championship striker before coming back to Kent for work last night.

The reason why it's not relevant is because the support of wigan is low because it's a rugby league town and not because they were in the FA Cup - so saying the FA Cup is dead because of Wigan support is wrong because their support is low even in the prem or now Championship

 

[Odvan]

Like i said, all well and good supporting your team when glory is in sight. And I've not said that there is anything wrong with their poor attendances either. I just said it epitomises why the glory of the cup has gone down hill slightly. 3rd round day used to be massive. Now its just another day of footy.

But you used Wigan (the holders) as an example to demonstrate how the cup 'was dying'. If that's the case, so too was the Premier League when they were a member!

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Thats true, but would you prefer to win FA Cup or champions league? Coz you can only get in that by finishing in top four. hence why clubs put such importance on it.

In all honesty i'd love to win old big ears again, but with our current manager/team we're a million miles away from doing it so i'd rather win the FA Cup.

Winning trophies mean more than being the 4th best team in England.

 

[Papas1982]

Unless i'm misreading your post i Think you're mistaking the FA Cup winning club of Wimbledon to that of the new AFC Wimbledon. Wimbledon had no fans, no ground and no-one bank-rolling them. It was ran as a business, just one that wasn't sustainable.

And you need to stop harping on about Wigan, you're embarrassing yourself, unless of course you can display Southampton's attendances to be the same as that of today, now you're back in the PL. A quick search shows that they lost up to 13k (43%) of their fan base during one lower league year. Perhaps if they hadn't, it wouldn't have taken them two seasons to get out of Div 1 (2) after double relegation, eh....Unfortunately, an audience doesn't breed success. Success does. I'm in no way a Wigan fan but please, don't castigate their fans for 'having their day' when it's the same with almost every other Club in the leagues.

Its called 'being fickle'.

And to other posters, apologies for going off track.

Sorry but if wimbledon had no fans, how was afc wimbledon born? By the very fans that supported wimbledon in the first place. Wimbleon of the 80's may have been poorly run. But the were a truer team than mamy of today!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sorry but if wimbledon had no fans, how was afc wimbledon born? By the very fans that supported wimbledon in the first place. Wimbleon of the 80's may have been poorly run. But the were a truer team than mamy of today!

Why exactly where they the "truer" team ? What exactly was it about Wimbledon that makes you hold them in such high esteem

 

[Papas1982]

But you used Wigan (the holders) as an example to demonstrate how the cup 'was dying'. If that's the case, so too was the Premier League when they were a member!

I used wigan to show them as an exaple of the holders of the cup not supporting it, to make your point about the league valid, we'd have to use UTD as they're current champs. And their attendances are still pretty good. I haven't once said that teams or fans dont want to win the league. I just don't thinkits a priority. More of a bonus that is considered viable once you reach the later stages.

 

[Papas1982]

Why exactly where they the "truer" team ? What exactly was it about Wimbledon that makes you hold them in such high esteem

I have no high esteem, but i used them once as an example. So am now using them comparitively. But i generally meant teams of that ear. Wehre the football club was put first. Success on the pitch brought money to the club, not like now where marketing is deemed more important. Cardiff now for example.

 

[Papas1982]

Unless i'm misreading your post i Think you're mistaking the FA Cup winning club of Wimbledon to that of the new AFC Wimbledon. Wimbledon had no fans, no ground and no-one bank-rolling them. It was ran as a business, just one that wasn't sustainable.

And you need to stop harping on about Wigan, you're embarrassing yourself, unless of course you can display Southampton's attendances to be the same as that of today, now you're back in the PL. A quick search shows that they lost up to 13k (43%) of their fan base during one lower league year. Perhaps if they hadn't, it wouldn't have taken them two seasons to get out of Div 1 (2) after double relegation, eh....Unfortunately, an audience doesn't breed success. Success does. I'm in no way a Wigan fan but please, don't castigate their fans for 'having their day' when it's the same with almost every other Club in the leagues.

Its called 'being fickle'.

And to other posters, apologies for going off track.

It took us 2 years due to a points deduction and firesale of players after throwing money at aiming at the prem. And yes our numbers fell when we were rlegated, like most clubs. I haven't at any point help saints up as a shining light. But if you want to directly compare us to wigan, i'd say our stadium has a higher perecntage whilst i the prem than theirs did also. Finally, an audience may not breed success. but im sure the atmosphere crowds can bring will hekp spur home teams on.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I have no high esteem, but i used them once as an example. So am now using them comparitively. But i generally meant teams of that ear. Wehre the football club was put first. Success on the pitch brought money to the club, not like now where marketing is deemed more important. Cardiff now for example.

The football club ( Wimbledon ) wasn't put first at all - it was a business and a name - first they moved out of their home ground then they moved towns up the road to MK - if you are going to use examples of pure football clubs you are going to struggle to find any. They all want money to be able to either give a profit to get success or to survive

 

[Papas1982]

The football club ( Wimbledon ) wasn't put first at all - it was a business and a name - first they moved out of their home ground then they moved towns up the road to MK - if you are going to use examples of pure football clubs you are going to struggle to find any. They all want money to be able to either give a profit to get success or to survive

I agree that is the way it is now. Simply saying that the wimbledon of the 80/90's was of that ilk. i know they sold out in the end. trust me, rupert lowe ran us into the ground with spreadsheets and pining it all on prem survival with no back up!

 

[bluewolf]

Just to respond to some points made in earlier posts..

1. Wigan is NOT a Rugby town. For every Rugby fan, there are 10 Football fans. Unfortunately, due to the size of the Football Club, most of these fans support other "Local" teams (such as Man U, Man C, Everton, Liverpool etc).

2. Highlighting Wigans attendances without showing any context is unhelpful. Our support has grown by over 1000% in the last 30 years. When I started watching The 'tics, the average crowd was just over 1000 (IIRC). Our average now is 15499 (so far this season). Yes, it's not a big number, but it is a fantastic figure considering our recent history.

3. As stated before, not one person I've met this season has wanted to swap the FA Cup for another year in the Premier League. It was the highlight of my Football life, and as important to me as the European Cup is to any Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man C fan. In fact, I'd say that it's more important because we are a small family club who should not be able to win the BIG cups.

4. Our Chairman would not swap the Cup for the Premier League either. And that is a fact. I've met Big Dave several times and I like him. I've spoken to him recently about the FA Cup win and he still cannot believe that we did it. Yes, everyone is sick of hearing about Dave's broken leg. But that day meant more to him than anyone else can even contemplate..

Sorry for going off track a bit...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I agree that is the way it is now. Simply saying that the wimbledon of the 80/90's was of that ilk. i know they sold out in the end. trust me, rupert lowe ran us into the ground with spreadsheets and pining it all on prem survival with no back up!

They were the same in the 80's and 90's as well - they were no different to any other club

 

[Papas1982]

Just to respond to some points made in earlier posts..

1. Wigan is NOT a Rugby town. For every Rugby fan, there are 10 Football fans. Unfortunately, due to the size of the Football Club, most of these fans support other "Local" teams (such as Man U, Man C, Everton, Liverpool etc).

2. Highlighting Wigans attendances without showing any context is unhelpful. Our support has grown by over 1000% in the last 30 years. When I started watching The 'tics, the average crowd was just over 1000 (IIRC). Our average now is 15499 (so far this season). Yes, it's not a big number, but it is a fantastic figure considering our recent history.

3. As stated before, not one person I've met this season has wanted to swap the FA Cup for another year in the Premier League. It was the highlight of my Football life, and as important to me as the European Cup is to any Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man C fan. In fact, I'd say that it's more important because we are a small family club who should not be able to win the BIG cups.

4. Our Chairman would not swap the Cup for the Premier League either. And that is a fact. I've met Big Dave several times and I like him. I've spoken to him recently about the FA Cup win and he still cannot believe that we did it. Yes, everyone is sick of hearing about Dave's broken leg. But that day meant more to him than anyone else can even contemplate..

Sorry for going off track a bit...

Firstly, apologies to wigan fans. I wasnt saying their is anything wrong with your club, or attendances. Just saying it shows a pattern, that is happening at all clubs. Low 3/4th attendances. Only rising if success is close. Which is why i said, using wigan as an example that although you wouldn't swap the cup now. When you had an empty stadium in the 3rd round. How excited were your fans about the club.

But for point one i would say that unfortunateky thats true for all clubs. At keast those club are remotley local. Unlike the numerous glory hunters down south.

2, the attendance figures were relevant in that you had less numbers watching cup than league. Showing the priority at the time.

Points 3 and 4 kinda fall under the same thing for me. I agree to whelan it will have ben a fantastic thing and realy did look like a cup day to him. But i bt deep down he's missing his 40m a year cash cow.

As a saints fan who went to the cup final in 03 and has since witnessed our fall and current rise. I can honeslt say that i would have much rather stayed up than had a cup final. Agreed, in history it looks better to have won something. But i get much more pleasure watching us win/lose or draw in the prem than in the lower leagues.

 

[Papas1982]

They were the same in the 80's and 90's as well - they were no different to any other club

Ok, then lets stop using wimbledon. It was just one example. What i mean to say, is that teams of the 80/90's had more desire for the cup than now. Maybe not fans who still love it. Although i still think that the fa cup is a bonus to fans not a prerequisite to a good season.

 

[G1BB0]

The FA Cup, League cup and if you ask me the UEFA cup have all been devauled thanks to the Champs league. Also the fact we have satellite/cable tv showing all the european league football.

I also think the CL is a bit of a joke compared to when it was the Europen cup, bring back league champions only and straight knockout!

 

[Dodger]

Should I rephrase it then?

Only the diddy teams and the fans care,oh and so do Premiership fans once they get to the semi and have a chance of a day at Wemberley?

Top League Chairmen certainly see it as a pain in the arse.

It's a dying cup that is a shadow of its former self.No one can deny that.