F1 2022

[Deleted member 29109]

The whole thing is becoming unbelievably shady.

Just like Honda now being the RB engine supplier again. After RB have spent a load of money setting up a power train division. Money which can be spent outside the cost cap.

 

[cliveb]

Red Bull will absolutely NOT be DQ'd from last year's Constructor's Championship. The latest rumour is it is a minor breach, and if there was such a breach it will most likely be dealt with via a fine.

If it's a minor breach - yes, a fine.

But if it turns out a major breach, the FIA must be seen to do something significant. And DQ'ing them from a championship which they didn't win seems like the sort of thing they'd do. They've got form. Remember Schumacher in 1997, and in 2007 McLaren would have actually won, so the FIA aren't afraid of getting tough.

 

[Swango1980]

If it's a minor breach - yes, a fine.

But if it turns out a major breach, the FIA must be seen to do something significant. And DQ'ing them from a championship which they didn't win seems like the sort of thing they'd do. They've got form. Remember Schumacher in 1997, and in 2007 McLaren would have actually won, so the FIA aren't afraid of getting tough.

Indeed. If it turns out a big infringement, a tough penalty is essential. If they get a slap.on the wrist, then that will just give the other teams the green light to ignore the financial caps in future.

If there was only a minor infringement then you'd have thought the FIA would simply announce the outcome already. Perhaps they've determined a major infringement, Red Bull are still arguing the numbers behind the scenes, and the FIA want to wait a few more days to double triple check things through, before announcing anything public and creating a media storm?

 

[Deleted member 29109]

If it's a minor breach - yes, a fine.

But if it turns out a major breach, the FIA must be seen to do something significant. And DQ'ing them from a championship which they didn't win seems like the sort of thing they'd do. They've got form. Remember Schumacher in 1997, and in 2007 McLaren would have actually won, so the FIA aren't afraid of getting tough.

McLaren we’re shown not to have any of the Ferrari designs on their car and the whole thing was largely one person. Yet they were still fined and DQ’d.

A lot of effort went in to making sure a Mercedes driver didn’t win the 21 championship. You can be sure there is a lot of effort going in to making sure they don’t have to give it back to them.

 

[cliveb]

A lot of effort went in to making sure a Mercedes driver didn’t win the 21 championship. You can be sure there is a lot of effort going in to making sure they don’t have to give it back to them.

I don't ascribe to the conspiracy theory about what happened in 2021. I think it was just a perfect storm of inconsistent stewarding throughout the year plus Masi cocking up under immense pressure in Abu Dhabi.

No way will Verstappen's title be removed. It was the team that allegedly overspent, not the driver. Just like in 2007 when Hamilton and Alonso kept their points.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I don't ascribe to the conspiracy theory about what happened in 2021. I think it was just a perfect storm of inconsistent stewarding throughout the year plus Masi cocking up under immense pressure in Abu Dhabi.

No way will Verstappen's title be removed. It was the team that allegedly overspent, not the driver. Just like in 2007 when Hamilton and Alonso kept their points.

If Redbull overspent by a significant amount. Max was driving an illegal car. How can he keep his points? Also, the advantage from overspending last year could carry through to this season and beyond if they have baked in an advantage.

Teams have already been questioning Redbulls ability to afford the upgrades they have brought this season. Sour grapes maybe. But there has been speculation about their spending going on for a long time.

The FIA have now postponed publishing their findings 4(?) times. That suggests there is something seriously wrong somewhere.

 

[cliveb]

If Redbull overspent by a significant amount. Max was driving an illegal car. How can he keep his points?

In principle you're absolutely correct.
But the 2021 world champion has been declared and it won't change.
It's the same sort of situation where a medal comp is closed, the result declared, only later to find that the winner should have been penalised a couple of shots at some point.

Also, the advantage from overspending last year could carry through to this season and beyond if they have baked in an advantage.

Yes, agreed. Perhaps if there is a major overspend discovered for 2021, the solution is to DQ them (and their drivers) from the 2022 campaign before it ends. But I don't think the FIA have quite big enough balls to do that.

The FIA have now postponed publishing their findings 4(?) times. That suggests there is something seriously wrong somewhere.

It suggests to me that the FIA have already privately told RB that they're going to have the book thrown at them, and the legal teams are now locked in combat.

 

[BTatHome]

So they delay again to ensure that Max can be crowned again this year .... and then can't remove that title either ?

Seems quite ironic that the penalty for over spending is a multimillion dollar fine ... isn't that the whole issue, they really don't care about the money aspect.

Of course a fine also means that last year's car, this year's car and next year car have all benefited from that overspend ... maybe more teams will decide that an overspend is worth the penalty in the future !

 

[Swango1980]

So they delay again to ensure that Max can be crowned again this year .... and then can't remove that title either ?

Seems quite ironic that the penalty for over spending is a multimillion dollar fine ... isn't that the whole issue, they really don't care about the money aspect.

Of course a fine also means that last year's car, this year's car and next year car have all benefited from that overspend ... maybe more teams will decide that an overspend is worth the penalty in the future !

If the infringement was large, I guess they'll just keep delaying the announcement until after Max wins the championship. Then they will have an excuse to determine a penalty that ensures it doesn't take it away from him.

 

[Captainron]

Congratulations to Max Verstappen on winning the World Campionship….
???

 

[Swango1980]

Congratulations to Max Verstappen on winning the World Campionship….
???

Indeed. At least he is making sure all.that additional money Red Bull have spent hasn't gone to waste

 

[theoneandonly]

R

Congratulations to Max Verstappen on winning the World Campionship….
???

Till tomorrow ??

 

[Tashyboy]

Is that 2 titles Max has with an asterisk against them. **

 

[ger147]

Is that 2 titles Max has with an asterisk against them. **

No, just the 1 asterisk from 2021.

In other motor racing news, a horriffic crash in the first Porsche Cup race at the BTCC meet at Brands Hatch this morning. Car flew off the track backwards, thru the barrier and ended up in a tree, narrowly avoiding taking out 5 marshalls.

Thankfully everyone escaped unhurt but was far too close for comfort.

 

[Piece]

Congrats to Max this year. ?

Disappointed that Ferrari fell away this season.

 

[Tashyboy]

Nothing against Max winning a second title but this is why I have fell outta live with F1.

Quote off the BBC site

Awarding full points or three-quarter points - as all the teams expected would be the case - was the difference between Verstappen leaving Japan as a double world champion, or having to go to the next race in the USA needing to gain one point on Leclerc and Perez to seal it.

Even Verstappen asked: "Are you sure?" when he was told he was champion, reflecting the historical precedent that reduced points are awarded in such circumstances.

But it seems that this protocol was inadvertently left out of the rules when they were rewritten over last winter following the controversial Belgian Grand Prix, when a result was declared despite no racing taking place.


It is run by amateurs.

 

[Captainron]

Is that 2 titles Max has with an asterisk against them. **

Nah. This one is 100% legit. He will win a few more races to put it beyond doubt

 

[Dando]

Nah. This one is 100% legit. He will win a few more races to put it beyond doubt

How can it be legit if Red Bull broke the spending cap?

 

[paddyc]

Got to say one of the most boring F1 seasons I can recall.
Looked good to start with LeClerc staying with Max but Ferrari reliability and a few curious strategies eventually put paid to challenge. Max a brilliant driver in a very good car ( question marks aside on spending) I hope we don't have Max dominating for years to come, but I think we may.

 

[Tashyboy]

Second title on the spin won by confusion. By a driver 100% legit? There is a smell around F1 at the moment that keeps me away. We have not even got to tomorrows delayed announcement.