F1 2021

[Smiffy]

I'm really not sure if @Liverpoolphil really hates Hamilton or really loves Verstappen.

Neither. He just likes being antagonistic and it wouldn't matter if the subject were motor racing, football or ballroom dancing.
He'd have a differing opinion because that's what he does best.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

I disagree that Hamilton has a nasty streak.

You're kdding? How many of his team mates has he fallen out with? Actually, easier if you list the ones he hasn't?

 

[Paperboy]

You're kdding? How many of his team mates has he fallen out with? Actually, easier if you list the ones he hasn't?

Name one champion that did?

 

[BiMGuy]

You're kdding? How many of his team mates has he fallen out with? Actually, easier if you list the ones he hasn't?

Let’s have them then?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm really not sure if @Liverpoolphil really hates Hamilton or really loves Verstappen as he can't seem to see both sides of the equation.
An important part about racing such as this is respect for the other racers. And at the moment I am not seeing that in Verstappen. He seems to be racing with little thought of consequences, and is in the "win by any means" mindset. I am not denying he is fast, I am not denying that you have to make it tough to overtake, and also you have to be tough to overtake, but there are limits and Verstappen seems to be overstepping those limits on a regular occasion.
Of course we've seen this in the past. Senna and Prost clashing on first corners. Schumacher taking out Hill in the title decider in Australia in 1994. Both (to me) were blantantly designed to take the other off. None were punished. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be now.
We can all look back at incidents in the past. What needs to be addressed is the here and now.

It’s neither - don’t hate Hamilton or love Verstappen

My initial post was thinking about an opposite forum that was backing Verstappen and pointing fingers at Hamilton - it was a very pro Hamilton conversation from the odd Hammy Fan Boy without seeing that maybe Hamilton is not always the innocent boy some appear to portray

It was an exciting race because Verstappen was on the edge and going for it - just like some drivers in the past when it was exciting - Senna , Schumacher etc and the sport needs someone like Verstappen to “shake” it up a little

It was also amusing watching it how much crying and complaining across the radios from all of them - not something I have listened to before

Now there will always be limits someone needs to ensure they don’t cross but I don’t think Verstappen is looking to deliberately hurt someone and F1 imo needs him to win the title - it would then make next year really exciting with Hamilton coming back at him

The best years for F1 were the Senna/Prost years etc - get that level of rivalry back and it’s a big boost

 

[Canary_Yellow]

You're kdding? How many of his team mates has he fallen out with? Actually, easier if you list the ones he hasn't?

That’s irrelevant in my opinion. Falling out with someone is nothing to do with nastiness.

He’s extremely competitive with a relentless hunger for winning.

He’s also a fair racer.

 

[cliveb]

It was an exciting race because Verstappen was on the edge and going for it - just like some drivers in the past when it was exciting - Senna , Schumacher etc and the sport needs someone like Verstappen to “shake” it up a little

The likes of Senna, Prost, Mansell, etc drove on the edge. So does Hamilton. So did Schumacher most of the time. But on occasions, Schuey drove beyond the edge, and Verstappen appears to have taken that to the next step.
It seems to me that Max believes he is entitled to use whatever piece of tarmac is convenient, regardless of whether it's on the track, or indeed if it's occupied by another car.
Horner is doing Max no favours by treating him as the second coming and denying he ever does anything wrong.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That’s irrelevant in my opinion. Falling out with someone is nothing to do with nastiness.

He’s extremely competitive with a relentless hunger for winning.

He’s also a fair racer.

There was a talk on 5live earlier about Hamilton and Button was talking about what he was like as a teammate and he talked about the year he had with Massa when they kept hitting each other - it was a stage where Hamilton was at where Verstappen is now. Someone also mentioned an issue last year with another Red Bill driver where Hamilton knocked him off as he was overtaking him - then there was the issue in the British Gp - so is it fair all the time ? Or certainly a lot more fair than Verstappen ?

 

[BiMGuy]

There was a talk on 5live earlier about Hamilton and Button was talking about what he was like as a teammate and he talked about the year he had with Massa when they kept hitting each other - it was a stage where Hamilton was at where Verstappen is now. Someone also mentioned an issue last year with another Red Bill driver where Hamilton knocked him off as he was overtaking him - then there was the issue in the British Gp - so is it fair all the time ? Or certainly a lot more fair than Verstappen ?

There is a huge difference in the incidents you mention involving Lewis, and what Max is doing. The incident at Silverstone was judged to be predominantly (not 100%) Lewis’s fault during the race. But after many pundits and ex drivers have laid more of the blame on Max for turning in on Lewis.
The year he kept having issues with Massa was his second in the sport. This is Max’s 7th I believe.

Senna was dirty, but could keep his car between the white lines. As could Schumacher, but he took outright cheating to another level. He should have had his racing license removed for the incident where he tried to force Barrichello into a wall at 200mph.

Max is now at a completely different level to both of them. He’s not even trying to keep his car on the track. It’s desperate, dangerous driving. The break testing incident yesterday should have resulted in a DQ.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

There was a talk on 5live earlier about Hamilton and Button was talking about what he was like as a teammate and he talked about the year he had with Massa when they kept hitting each other - it was a stage where Hamilton was at where Verstappen is now. Someone also mentioned an issue last year with another Red Bill driver where Hamilton knocked him off as he was overtaking him - then there was the issue in the British Gp - so is it fair all the time ? Or certainly a lot more fair than Verstappen ?

All drivers make mistakes, no one is denying that and Hamilton took responsibility for bumping Albion. Also, it’s not right to compare Hamilton in his second season in F1 when he was going up against Massa with Verstappen now, given Verstappen is currently in his 7th season in F1.

Verstappen is young, but he’s no rookie, his driving style should be maturing while actually it seems to be going in the opposite direction.

I would say that on balance, judging both their careers as a whole, Hamilton is considerably fairer in his approach.

 

[Swango1980]

There was a talk on 5live earlier about Hamilton and Button was talking about what he was like as a teammate and he talked about the year he had with Massa when they kept hitting each other - it was a stage where Hamilton was at where Verstappen is now. Someone also mentioned an issue last year with another Red Bill driver where Hamilton knocked him off as he was overtaking him - then there was the issue in the British Gp - so is it fair all the time ? Or certainly a lot more fair than Verstappen ?

What is your argument here? Your defence for Verstappen appears to be "other drivers, including Lewis, have done dirty things in the past, it is not just Max". Is that a fair summary?

 

[Hobbit]

There was a talk on 5live earlier about Hamilton and Button was talking about what he was like as a teammate and he talked about the year he had with Massa when they kept hitting each other - it was a stage where Hamilton was at where Verstappen is now. Someone also mentioned an issue last year with another Red Bill driver where Hamilton knocked him off as he was overtaking him - then there was the issue in the British Gp - so is it fair all the time ? Or certainly a lot more fair than Verstappen ?

You’re talking about years of driving against what Verstappen has done this year. THIS YEAR!

You might think you’ve got a valid argument… no you haven’t, not even close.

 

[Tashyboy]

I think Lewis is a knob but the way Max has been driving this year has been appalling

I could not of put it better in a shorter sentence. The problem is That Even the non Hamilton fans are hoping he does Verstappen. If Verstappen wins the title there should be an asterisk at the side of it ?

 

[Canary_Yellow]

I could not of put it better in a shorter sentence. The problem is That Even the non Hamilton fans are hoping he does Verstappen. If Verstappen wins the title there should be an asterisk at the side of it ?

It’s a shame though because the brilliance of verstappen’s driving is being overshadowed.

We should all be talking about his brilliant overtake on the second restart. That was a great, opportunistic move!

 

[BiMGuy]

It’s a shame though because the brilliance of verstappen’s driving is being overshadowed.

We should all be talking about his brilliant overtake on the second restart. That was a great, opportunistic move!

That brilliant overtake was Lewis leaving the door wiiiiiiiide open.

If Lewis had made any attempt to make the apex Max would have taken them both out. Lewis was so far right he hit Ocon just to make sure Max didn’t torpedo him.

Max is fast. But his race craft is very poor.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

All drivers make mistakes, no one is denying that and Hamilton took responsibility for bumping Albion. Also, it’s not right to compare Hamilton in his second season in F1 when he was going up against Massa with Verstappen now, given Verstappen is currently in his 7th season in F1.

Verstappen is young, but he’s no rookie, his driving style should be maturing while actually it seems to be going in the opposite direction.

I would say that on balance, judging both their careers as a whole, Hamilton is considerably fairer in his approach.

As i said just what they were saying - looking at the penalty points gained Verstappen certainly has had more from crashes with people ( as opposed to the pit Lane offences etc )

He maybe around the sport a while but he is still a young lad at 24 so growing up still need to be done yet

Let’s hope that the title will be sorted by a clean fair race next time out

What is your argument here? Your defence for Verstappen appears to be "other drivers, including Lewis, have done dirty things in the past, it is not just Max". Is that a fair summary?

there is no “argument” - it’s just a discussion that’s all , not defending anyone or accusing anyone and you don’t need to jump up to defend Hamilton every time. It’s ok , people are ok to have a different view ?

You’re talking about years of driving against what Verstappen has done this year. THIS YEAR!

You might think you’ve got a valid argument… no you haven’t, not even close.

Wasn’t the Hamilton issue at Silverstone this year ? And an issue that put Verstappen out of the grand prix and Hamilton was able to go on and win . That’s this year

 

[Swango1980]

As i said just what they were saying - looking at the penalty points gained Verstappen certainly has had more from crashes with people ( as opposed to the pit Lane offences etc )

He maybe around the sport a while but he is still a young lad at 24 so growing up still need to be done yet

Let’s hope that the title will be sorted by a clean fair race next time out


there is no “argument” - it’s just a discussion that’s all , not defending anyone or accusing anyone and you don’t need to jump up to defend Hamilton every time. It’s ok , people are ok to have a different view ?


Wasn’t the Hamilton issue at Silverstone this year ? And an issue that put Verstappen out of the grand prix and Hamilton was able to go on and win . That’s this year

When did I defend Hamilton all the time? If I did, it was because an incident Hamilton was involved in was brought up (either a Verstappen incident, or incidents from the past). The thread turned from a discussion about Max into one about Hamilton and his driving style.

The main discussion was simply about Max being a dirty driver. It appears you agree Verstappen is a dirty driver, as all you've done is compare to historic incidents that you also feel were underhand (whether we agree or not is irrelevant, as the key point is that if you think they were underhand, you also believe same about Max).

The fact Lewis is the one on the receiving end at the moment is a red herring. Who cares? If it was McLaren and Norris fighting against Max, or Ferrari and Leclerc, I can guarantee we'd be having the same discussion. I may be a Hamilton fan of sorts, but there are plenty of others who are not big fans who still are hugely critical of Max

 

[Deleted member 3432]

When did I defend Hamilton all the time? If I did, it was because an incident Hamilton was involved in was brought up (either a Verstappen incident, or incidents from the past). The thread turned from a discussion about Max into one about Hamilton and his driving style.

The main discussion was simply about Max being a dirty driver. It appears you agree Verstappen is a dirty driver, as all you've done is compare to historic incidents that you also feel were underhand (whether we agree or not is irrelevant, as the key point is that if you think they were underhand, you also believe same about Max).

The fact Lewis is the one on the receiving end at the moment is a red herring. Who cares? If it was McLaren and Norris fighting against Max, or Ferrari and Leclerc, I can guarantee we'd be having the same discussion. I may be a Hamilton fan of sorts, but there are plenty of others who are not big fans who still are hugely critical of Max

You've fallen for F1Phil's ?

 

[Canary_Yellow]

That brilliant overtake was Lewis leaving the door wiiiiiiiide open.

If Lewis had made any attempt to make the apex Max would have taken them both out. Lewis was so far right he hit Ocon just to make sure Max didn’t torpedo him.

Max is fast. But his race craft is very poor.

Lewis did leave the door open, that is true, but it was still an excellent move to complete the overtake.

Hamilton was over to the right seeing off ocon, not to avoid verstappen. Had Hamilton turned in on verstappen, the resulting crash would have been predominantly hamilton’s fault.

I’m a keen Hamilton fan, but I can appreciate a very good bit of driving when I see one.

 

[Slime]

They are both fabulous drivers, but, whoever takes the title, we still won't know who the better driver is because they are using different machines.
Stick them in identical cars, then we'd know for sure!
Apart from that ................................ come on Max!