F1 2021

Swango1980

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I wonder if there is a Dutch equivalent forum somewhere out there that has the polar opposite reaction

It seems to me to be a season that actually has two drivers that can win the title and want to win the title badly - Hamilton over the years has cruised to title wins without much opposition , the one year he was challenged was Rosberg who beat him and Hamilton cried throughout the season. Drivers that want to win when in a battle will take risks - Senna used , didnt James Hunt ? Schumacher etc

Is this right now not how it should be - drivers going at it to try and win at all costs - Hamilton just doesn’t seem to like it right now because there is a chance that he might actually lose to another driver.

Yesterdays GP was the first one I watched from start to finish for years - it had it all , it maybe not the purists dream but it certainly had the excitement which is what sport is supposed to be
When top sports people are competing at the top of their game, they do not often show a huge Riccardo like grin when things do not go their way. If I remember back to the season Rosberg won, I remember a lot of good fortune went his way / bad fortune Lewis's way. It is understandable he wasn't a happy go lucky guy a lot of the time.

Hamilton's "moaning" this season is largely due to the way Max drives. The fact he will happily drive anyone off the track. We see drivers overtake other drivers all the time, and more often than not the driver being overtaken simply has to accept he has been done by the quicker guy / car. Max never has that attitude. It is fine if he were to compete right on the limit. But, he will simply drive himself off the track and force the other guy to get out of the way, or crash. Or, if on the outside, he'll simply turn into the guy on the inside as if he suddenly shouldn't exist. You may think it is racing, but to me it is not.

However, the irony is, there is probably something to be said that such madness in a driver is entertaining in itself. It creates controversy and talking points. It doesn't justify what he does in terms of racing, but it probably provides entertainment to many. It has generated a lot of discussion on here. Had the red flag never happened, and Hamilton and Bottas just sailed to a one - two, there would probably be little to speak about.
 

Canary_Yellow

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I wonder if there is a Dutch equivalent forum somewhere out there that has the polar opposite reaction

It seems to me to be a season that actually has two drivers that can win the title and want to win the title badly - Hamilton over the years has cruised to title wins without much opposition , the one year he was challenged was Rosberg who beat him and Hamilton cried throughout the season. Drivers that want to win when in a battle will take risks - Senna used , didnt James Hunt ? Schumacher etc

Is this right now not how it should be - drivers going at it to try and win at all costs - Hamilton just doesn’t seem to like it right now because there is a chance that he might actually lose to another driver.

Yesterdays GP was the first one I watched from start to finish for years - it had it all , it maybe not the purists dream but it certainly had the excitement which is what sport is supposed to be

With all due respect, I think that’s wrong.

The sentiment is correct, we all want good, hard, wheel to wheel racing, and F1 as a sport (due to the technical regs) isn’t great for that as the cars can’t follow closely. However, Max’s approach has consistently crossed the line this season, I’ve never known a driver get so many penalties for driving standards. He clearly should have got one in Brazil too which was even more of a penalty than the one he got yesterday.

I had given Verstappen the benefit of the doubt until yesterday, I had assumed he was a young(ish) driver desperate to make his mark making a few errors along the way out of his determination to win. Yesterday, that position became untenable with a series of questionable on track decisions, followed by a ridiculous off track sulky demeanour.

In my eyes, he’s like a little kid whose parents always say is in the right regardless of whether he is or he isn’t. He actually seems to now believe the guff Horner comes out with and never thinks he’s wrong.

Yesterday was over the line, lets hope next Sunday isn’t.
 
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When top sports people are competing at the top of their game, they do not often show a huge Riccardo like grin when things do not go their way. If I remember back to the season Rosberg won, I remember a lot of good fortune went his way / bad fortune Lewis's way. It is understandable he wasn't a happy go lucky guy a lot of the time.

Hamilton's "moaning" this season is largely due to the way Max drives. The fact he will happily drive anyone off the track. We see drivers overtake other drivers all the time, and more often than not the driver being overtaken simply has to accept he has been done by the quicker guy / car. Max never has that attitude. It is fine if he were to compete right on the limit. But, he will simply drive himself off the track and force the other guy to get out of the way, or crash. Or, if on the outside, he'll simply turn into the guy on the inside as if he suddenly shouldn't exist. You may think it is racing, but to me it is not.

However, the irony is, there is probably something to be said that such madness in a driver is entertaining in itself. It creates controversy and talking points. It doesn't justify what he does in terms of racing, but it probably provides entertainment to many. It has generated a lot of discussion on here. Had the red flag never happened, and Hamilton and Bottas just sailed to a one - two, there would probably be little to speak about.

I guess you can’t see how biased that all is towards Hamilton ?‍♂️

You will only look at Verstappens driving as dangerous it seems - but it seems to be just racing and Hamilton doesn’t like it

With all due respect, I think that’s wrong.

The sentiment is correct, we all want good, hard, wheel to wheel racing, and F1 as a sport (due to the technical regs) isn’t great for that as the cars can’t follow closely. However, Max’s approach has consistently crossed the line this season, I’ve never known a driver get so many penalties for driving standards. He clearly should have got one in Brazil too which was even more of a penalty than the one he got yesterday.

I had given Verstappen the benefit of the doubt until yesterday, I had assumed he was a young(ish) driver desperate to make his mark making a few errors along the way out of his determination to win. Yesterday, that position became untenable with a series of questionable on track decisions, followed by a ridiculous off track sulky demeanour.

In my eyes, he’s like a little kid whose parents always say is in the right regardless of whether he is or he isn’t. He actually seems to now believe the guff Horner comes out with and never thinks he’s wrong.

Yesterday was over the line, lets hope next Sunday isn’t.
Could that not just as easily be said about Hamilton as well ?

And also a number of racing drivers through the years - Senna , Prost , Schumacher , Vettel - not surprisingly the successful ones.

Listening to the ex F1 drivers - they seemed to have a different view than what’s being said on here
 

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I guess you can’t see how biased that all is towards Hamilton ?‍♂️

You will only look at Verstappens driving as dangerous it seems - but it seems to be just racing and Hamilton doesn’t like it

That view is becoming increasingly hard to support in the face of the shear volume of penalties verstappen has received this season.

I haven’t heard any ex-drivers criticise the standard of Hamilton’s driving to be honest.
 
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BiMGuy

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I wonder if there is a Dutch equivalent forum somewhere out there that has the polar opposite reaction

It seems to me to be a season that actually has two drivers that can win the title and want to win the title badly - Hamilton over the years has cruised to title wins without much opposition , the one year he was challenged was Rosberg who beat him and Hamilton cried throughout the season. Drivers that want to win when in a battle will take risks - Senna used , didnt James Hunt ? Schumacher etc

Is this right now not how it should be - drivers going at it to try and win at all costs - Hamilton just doesn’t seem to like it right now because there is a chance that he might actually lose to another driver.

Yesterdays GP was the first one I watched from start to finish for years - it had it all , it maybe not the purists dream but it certainly had the excitement which is what sport is supposed to be

Pickford really wanted to win last season so he did whatever was needed to take VVD out. VVD just didn’t like it that someone was prepared to challenge him, so he and all the Liverpool fans should stop complaining about it.
 

Swango1980

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[QUOTE="Liverpoolphil, post: 2430107, member: 15344"]I guess you can’t see how biased that all is towards Hamilton ?‍♂️

You will only look at Verstappens driving as dangerous it seems - but it seems to be just racing and Hamilton doesn’t like it



Could that not just as easily be said about Hamilton as well ?

And also a number of racing drivers through the years - Senna , Prost , Schumacher , Vettel - not surprisingly the successful ones.

Listening to the ex F1 drivers - they seemed to have a different view than what’s being said on here[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but that is a seriously lazy argument. You are trying to indicate I am being purely biased for Hamilton. However, the simple fact is, Hamilton is the one on the receiving end of his antics at the moment. He is the only guy quick enough to be involved in these battles with Max.

You are also happily ignoring the numerous other posters in here that are being equally critical of Max. Are they all being biased towards Lewis?

The FIA gave him a penalty for significantly braking in front of Lewis, causing a collision. Can I be critical of Max for that, or is that not allowed because it was Lewis behind him. If another driver crashed into the back of him, could I be critical?
 

Swango1980

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I guess you can’t see how biased that all is towards Hamilton ?‍♂️

You will only look at Verstappens driving as dangerous it seems - but it seems to be just racing and Hamilton doesn’t like it


Could that not just as easily be said about Hamilton as well ?

And also a number of racing drivers through the years - Senna , Prost , Schumacher , Vettel - not surprisingly the successful ones.

Listening to the ex F1 drivers - they seemed to have a different view than what’s being said on here
Do they? Pundits have to be diplomatic, they can't let emotions get the better of them if they are acting professionally. The main pundits no doubt have very close ties with all the teams, as they are in the paddock week in week out. They do not want to stir up bad blood with the mighty Red Bull team, or any other team. However, they still gently point the finger at Max numerous times after these many incidents.

I've not heard the opinion of many other ex F1 drivers, except as I mentioned previously when I heard Montoya believed Max had no concern about crashing into Hamilton in Brazil, as it would work to his advantage in all likelihood. Several current F1 drivers, such as Leclerc and Russell believed Verstappen's move was unacceptable under the guidelines, and so they were awaiting the final outcome with interest.

No one doubts Max is quick. No one doubts he is aggressive. I have heard very few come out and say he is fair. I have heard plenty of other drivers in the past being praised for good hard racing, and Lewis has been one of those in that discussion.
 
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Pickford really wanted to win last season so he did whatever was needed to take VVD out. VVD just didn’t like it that someone was prepared to challenge him, so he and all the Liverpool fans should stop complaining about it.

Wow - that’s be the random but well done on somehow bringing football and Liverpool into it - that’s pretty special level trolling ?
[QUOTE="Liverpoolphil, post: 2430107, member: 15344"]I guess you can’t see how biased that all is towards Hamilton ?‍♂️

You will only look at Verstappens driving as dangerous it seems - but it seems to be just racing and Hamilton doesn’t like it


Could that not just as easily be said about Hamilton as well ?

And also a number of racing drivers through the years - Senna , Prost , Schumacher , Vettel - not surprisingly the successful ones.

Listening to the ex F1 drivers - they seemed to have a different view than what’s being said on here

I'm sorry, but that is a seriously lazy argument. You are trying to indicate I am being purely biased for Hamilton. However, the simple fact is, Hamilton is the one on the receiving end of his antics at the moment. He is the only guy quick enough to be involved in these battles with Max.

You are also happily ignoring the numerous other posters in here that are being equally critical of Max. Are they all being biased towards Lewis?

The FIA gave him a penalty for significantly braking in front of Lewis, causing a collision. Can I be critical of Max for that, or is that not allowed because it was Lewis behind him. If another driver crashed into the back of him, could I be critical?[/QUOTE]

English fans supporting an English Racing driver - imagine that ?

So why were F1 drivers not being a critical ? The guys who have sat in the cars - but there is bias everywhere in sport - if Max was English then the response we be hugely different

These guys are on the edge - they will be going at it for the win
 

Swango1980

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I wonder if there is a Dutch equivalent forum somewhere out there that has the polar opposite reaction

It seems to me to be a season that actually has two drivers that can win the title and want to win the title badly - Hamilton over the years has cruised to title wins without much opposition , the one year he was challenged was Rosberg who beat him and Hamilton cried throughout the season. Drivers that want to win when in a battle will take risks - Senna used , didnt James Hunt ? Schumacher etc

Is this right now not how it should be - drivers going at it to try and win at all costs - Hamilton just doesn’t seem to like it right now because there is a chance that he might actually lose to another driver.

Yesterdays GP was the first one I watched from start to finish for years - it had it all , it maybe not the purists dream but it certainly had the excitement which is what sport is supposed to be
Would this maybe be the reason you have little concept as to how atrocious Max can be?
 

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Do we know yet what the sequence of radio messages was before the Hamilton into the back of Verstappen incident was.

From the chat after the race, it sounded like Max had been told to give the place up and thats why he slowed, but Lewis wasnt aware that was happening.
 

Swango1980

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Not sure why my replies to Liverpoolphil, and vice versa, are distorted when they appear on here. So a reply to post 589.

I'm not English, so I'll let that slide. But, I shouldn't have to be non-British to criticise Max, or only be allowed to be critical if it was a non-British driver on the receiving end. If that was a good argument by yourself, we might as well shut down this debate right now, unless we have any non-Brits in here.

Current F1 drivers have been critical, but unless they afre directly involved in an incident, they are rarely too vocal in the media as this can cause all sorts of grief. We have no idea what they say behind closed doors. I'd be suprised if they shower Max with lots of praise.
 

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Surely you would post the video as opposed to a still

As the F1 commentator says “Max hasn’t done anything wrong there”’
Max got a penalty for his antics in Monza. He had done something wrong.

From what I've heard on the last few races, the ex-drivers on Sky are mostly critical of Verstappen's driving. The ex-drivers on Channel 4 are more supportive of Verstappen, but don't tend to be that critical of Hamilton. The ex-drivers on Channel 4 are both ex-Red Bull drivers.
 

BiMGuy

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Wow - that’s be the random but well done on somehow bringing football and Liverpool into it - that’s pretty special level trolling ?




So why were F1 drivers not being a critical ? The guys who have sat in the cars - but there is bias everywhere in sport - if Max was English then the response we be hugely different

These guys are on the edge - they will be going at it for the win

Me trolling? Good one ?. You seem to think that cheating is ok as long as you really want to win.

The only drivers not being critical are those still on RBs payroll and some of the Sky team. One of which has a very large axe to grind against Lewis’s father.
 
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Do we know yet what the sequence of radio messages was before the Hamilton into the back of Verstappen incident was.

From the chat after the race, it sounded like Max had been told to give the place up and thats why he slowed, but Lewis wasnt aware that was happening.

This is Verstap

When they told me that I had the five-second penalty, it was not worth fighting anymore because I would never pull a gap of five seconds,” said the championship leader. “So yes, a lot of action, a lot of things that happened. I think ultimately, we didn’t really have perfect pace in the race, maybe also the medium tyres were not amazing to the end. I think the hard tyres [of Hamilton] had a bit more life in them I think, but as always, it’s easy to say afterwards.
You mean Ben (I love Max) Edwards? :LOL:

If it's videos you want, be my guest



Can’t see it ?

So what about this penalty that Hamilton got

https://racer.com/2021/07/19/fia-explains-why-consequence-not-a-part-of-hamilton-penalty/amp/

Says that Verstappen ended up in hospital as a precaution ?

Also some penalty points as well

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2021/07/18/hamilton-issued-penalty-points-following-verstappen-crash/

https://www.skysports.com/amp/f1/ne...formula-1-race-ban-after-russian-gp-penalties

Hamilton doesn’t appear to be the squeaky clean driver that some portray him to be

https://racingnews365.com/who-is-involved-in-more-on-track-incidents-hamilton-or-verstappen/amp
 

Beezerk

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That’s what the guys were saying about n commentary - he was told to give the place up and he slowed


This is Verstap



Can’t see it ?

So what about this penalty that Hamilton got

https://racer.com/2021/07/19/fia-explains-why-consequence-not-a-part-of-hamilton-penalty/amp/

Says that Verstappen ended up in hospital as a precaution ?

Also some penalty points as well

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2021/07/18/hamilton-issued-penalty-points-following-verstappen-crash/

https://www.skysports.com/amp/f1/ne...formula-1-race-ban-after-russian-gp-penalties

Hamilton doesn’t appear to be the squeaky clean driver that some portray him to be

https://racingnews365.com/who-is-involved-in-more-on-track-incidents-hamilton-or-verstappen/amp

I don’t think anyone is saying Hamilton is squeaky clean, good try to deflect though.
Verstappen is an absolute cock of a driver at the minute, if Hamilton was doing the same I’d be slagging him off just as much.
 

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In the interests of balance, I do also think Masi and the FIA have played their part in things deteriorating.

The way Max defended in Brazil should have been punished to prevent ambiguity on what is and is not acceptable going forward.

For me, Monza and Silverstone were both racing incidents caused by two drivers really going for it. The collisions could both have been avoided by either driver, but I don’t have a problem with those kinds of incidents, even if penalties are dished out.

If Masi had referred the Brazil incident to the stewards, or ordered Verstappen to give the place back, we probably wouldn’t have seen Verstappen do the same again yesterday. I can see why Red Bull would be annoyed by that inconsistency, but fact is, he should actually have received a penalty for both.

The brake testing is impossible to defend though. Regardless of whether Lewis was confused or not, or whether he did or did not want to pass, Verstappen jamming the brakes in that way, completely unnecessarily given he was nowhere near the corner, was unacceptable to me as someone that likes to see fair competition and wheel to wheel racing.
 
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