European Union

[SocketRocket]

Close! Maybe.

Anyone demonstrating a blatant, ill-informed, xenophobic attitude is likely to be a Daily Mail reader!

And any Daily Mail reader is likely to acquire (or already have) a blatantly, ill-informed, xenephobic attitude, based on the headline propoganda!

The Torygraph's indoctrination process is far less blatant - altogether far more gentile and 'British'!

I see! So please educate us on the political and information levels of other news paper readers. The Guardian, Telegraph, Times, Sun, Express, Mirror, etc. I assume your knowledge on this relationship transcends gut feeling and has some form of qualification. I wait in anticipation for further clarification and indeed education.

 

[Foxholer]

I see! So please educate us on the political and information levels of other news paper readers. The Guardian, Telegraph, Times, Sun, Express, Mirror, etc. I assume your knowledge on this relationship transcends gut feeling and has some form of qualification. I wait in anticipation for further clarification and indeed education.

There's plenty of info out there, so if the ability to read transcends gut feeling, then it sure does. I suggest you do the same! A for clarification/education..... Google is your friend - try 'Newspaper Readership Profiles'!

Now, back to 'European Union'......

 

[SocketRocket]

There's plenty of info out there, so if the ability to read transcends gut feeling, then it sure does. I suggest you do the same! A for clarification/education..... Google is your friend - try 'Newspaper Readership Profiles'!

Now, back to 'European Union'......

I may give it a try sometime after the more pleasurable pastime of sticking pins in my eyes.

 

[SocketRocket]

Back to the EU and the Illegal immigrants waiting to cross the channel. These people should be claiming political asylum in the first country they pass through, how can they wait to use this card until they arrive in the UK? I would suggest that anyone who arrives in the Uk to claim asylum who has passed through another country should be deported to that country without delay.

 

[Foxholer]

Back to the EU and the Illegal immigrants waiting to cross the channel. These people should be claiming political asylum in the first country they pass through, how can they wait to use this card until they arrive in the UK?

That must surely be something for the UK Government to take up with the French Government!

 

[Hacker Khan]

I see! So please educate us on the political and information levels of other news paper readers. The Guardian, Telegraph, Times, Sun, Express, Mirror, etc. I assume your knowledge on this relationship transcends gut feeling and has some form of qualification. I wait in anticipation for further clarification and indeed education.

The Guardian - Lentil eating yogurt knitting lefties

Telegraph - Retired right wing Brigadier Generals and golfers

Times - Slightly less right wing retired right wing Brigadier Generals and golfers

Sun - Mostly interested in tits, will support any party that is likely to win the election

Express - Old people who like reading about the weather, Lady Di and Maddy. All the time. Every week.

Mirror - Lefties with not got enough GCSEs to understand The Guardian

Daily Mail - UKIP supporters.

 

[ger147]

The Guardian - Lentil eating yogurt knitting lefties

Telegraph - Retired right wing Brigadier Generals and golfers

Times - Slightly less right wing retired right wing Brigadier Generals and golfers

Sun - Mostly interested in tits, will support any party that is likely to win the election

Express - Old people who like reading about the weather, Lady Di and Maddy. All the time. Every week.

Mirror - Lefties with not got enough GCSEs to understand The Guardian

Daily Mail - UKIP supporters.

http://youtu.be/DGscoaUWW2M

 

[Crazyface]

Back to the EU and the Illegal immigrants waiting to cross the channel. These people should be claiming political asylum in the first country they pass through, how can they wait to use this card until they arrive in the UK? I would suggest that anyone who arrives in the Uk to claim asylum who has passed through another country should be deported to that country without delay.

Hurrah someone who actually took the time to read and understand my post.

How do these immigrant get though ALL of EUROPE without anyone stopping them? They are NOT entitled to free movement within the EU so why aren't they stopped as they should be BEFORE THEY GET ANYWHERE NEAR US???????? WTF is it our problem???? It is Europes problem. That's where they enter EUROPE. Can you not see this????? We are being pooped (ok mods???) on by our so call Europeans partners. If we pulled out set out own laws we could stop them. GO NIGE AND UKIP !!!!!! The Tories are starting torealise that UKIP are listening to the Britsh people and getting fast growing support. (See announcement on Tax) Labour can all **** off after watching that stupid woman on last nights question time. Total idiots!

 

[SocketRocket]

The Guardian - Lentil eating yogurt knitting lefties

Telegraph - Retired right wing Brigadier Generals and golfers

Times - Slightly less right wing retired right wing Brigadier Generals and golfers

Sun - Mostly interested in tits, will support any party that is likely to win the election

Express - Old people who like reading about the weather, Lady Di and Maddy. All the time. Every week.

Mirror - Lefties with not got enough GCSEs to understand The Guardian

Daily Mail - UKIP supporters.

Thanks for that, it clarifies things a great deal. Just one question for you! I believe you are a Golfer from some of your previous postings; does that make you a retired Brigadier general who reads the Telegraph or Guardian?

Just interested!

 

[Hacker Khan]

Thanks for that, it clarifies things a great deal. Just one question for you! I believe you are a Golfer from some of your previous postings; does that make you a retired Brigadier general who reads the Telegraph or Guardian?

Just interested!

I don't read any papers and just form my opinion on current affairs based on the posts in the Out of Bounds section of this forum. As I believe it gives me a really balanced, compassionate and well thought out perspective on the major issues in society today. Don't trust papers, with their thinly veiled agendas, spreading all sorts of socialist or right wing propaganda.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Hurrah someone who actually took the time to read and understand my post.

How do these immigrant get though ALL of EUROPE without anyone stopping them? They are NOT entitled to free movement within the EU so why aren't they stopped as they should be BEFORE THEY GET ANYWHERE NEAR US???????? WTF is it our problem???? It is Europes problem. That's where they enter EUROPE. Can you not see this????? We are being pooped (ok mods???) on by our so call Europeans partners. If we pulled out set out own laws we could stop them. GO NIGE AND UKIP !!!!!! The Tories are starting torealise that UKIP are listening to the Britsh people and getting fast growing support. (See announcement on Tax) Labour can all **** off after watching that stupid woman on last nights question time. Total idiots!

You see, as the above proves, I get all the well reasoned and coherent arguments I need on here, including cApiTAl letters to indicate the importance of those words, so why do I need any papers?

 

[Ethan]

Oh! I see now, thanks!

So if I get it right then anyone not holding a Pro-EU viewpoint has a "blatant, ill-informed, xenophobic attitude - based on headline propaganda" And I guess reads the Daily Mail!

No, it is knee jerk anti-Europe, flag waving (check your avatar), mouth drooling jingoism.

But lets not forget it is also tinged with a large measure of hypocrisy.

Its owner is a British born and educated non dom who pays little or no UK tax as a result. A hypocrite beyond compare. At least he has not declared his admiration for Hitler and Mosley (although he may have it) like his great-grandfather did, but the political views appear not to have evolved very much regardless.

 

[Hacker Khan]

No, it is knee jerk anti-Europe, flag waving (check your avatar), mouth drooling jingoism.

But lets not forget it is also tinged with a large measure of hypocrisy.

Its owner is a British born and educated non dom who pays little or no UK tax as a result. A hypocrite beyond compare. At least he has not declared his admiration for Hitler and Mosley (although he may have it) like his great-grandfather did, but the political views appear not to have evolved very much regardless.

Wow, I thought I didn't like the Daily Mail. Respect.

Cheers yourself up with this, it's an oldie but a goodie.

[video=youtube_share;5eBT6OSr1TI]http://youtu.be/5eBT6OSr1TI[/video]

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I don't read any papers and just form my opinion on current affairs based on the posts in the Out of Bounds section of this forum. As I believe it gives me a really balanced, compassionate and well thought out perspective on the major issues in society today. Don't trust papers, with their thinly veiled agendas, spreading all sorts of socialist or right wing propaganda.

But if, as you say, you do not read any newspapers how are yo so expert on the contents of the Daily Mail and equally certain which of your fellow forumers do read it?

Surely not lazy stereotyping on your well-informed part.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

No, it is knee jerk anti-Europe, flag waving (check your avatar), mouth drooling jingoism.

But lets not forget it is also tinged with a large measure of hypocrisy.

Its owner is a British born and educated non dom who pays little or no UK tax as a result. A hypocrite beyond compare. At least he has not declared his admiration for Hitler and Mosley (although he may have it) like his great-grandfather did, but the political views appear not to have evolved very much regardless.

Not exactly a rational argument.

Perhaps it is time to ask the people, after all if the EU really is the answer then the electorate should be convinced of this by its political supporters.

However, the problem appears to lie with the Labour Party who, apparently, think "this is too big an issue to put to a referendum". This despite the question being perfectly well understood by the British electorate when we last held a referendum in 1975.

Name calling and accusations of jingoism levelled at those with a contrary view is unlikely to sway too many.

 

[woody69]

Hurrah someone who actually took the time to read and understand my post.

How do these immigrant get though ALL of EUROPE without anyone stopping them? They are NOT entitled to free movement within the EU so why aren't they stopped as they should be BEFORE THEY GET ANYWHERE NEAR US???????? WTF is it our problem???? It is Europes problem. That's where they enter EUROPE. Can you not see this????? We are being pooped (ok mods???) on by our so call Europeans partners. If we pulled out set out own laws we could stop them. GO NIGE AND UKIP !!!!!! The Tories are starting torealise that UKIP are listening to the Britsh people and getting fast growing support. (See announcement on Tax) Labour can all **** off after watching that stupid woman on last nights question time. Total idiots!

Anyone is allowed to claim asylum anywhere, but states may lawfully remove asylum seekers to safe third countries on the grounds that they could have claimed asylum there. The immigration rules state, however, that the secretary of state will only remove an asylum seeker to a safe third country if there is clear evidence that the country concerned will admit the person. This will be so if the person has arrived in the UK via another safe country and had an opportunity at the border of or within that country to claim asylum. The mere fact that the person has passed through another country does not necessarily mean there was an opportunity to claim asylum though; if an agent planned the journey and the person was hidden in a vehicle for the duration of it, for example, there is unlikely to have been any realistic opportunity for the person to approach the authorities.

You also have to consider that lots of these immigrants are stopped before they even get to us. And believe it or not the UK does deport a large proportion of them even if they do get through. In 2013 there were 50,741 foreign nationals removed from within the UK under immigration law - or known to have departed under threat of such removal - an increase of 14.5% from 2012 totals. This figure excludes individuals refused entry at port and subsequently removed. In 2013, 8,660 people who were removed or forced to depart were asylum cases, including 8,225 asylum applicants and 405 dependent family members.

So I'm not really sure what is getting you so worked up tbh. There is certainly a problem, but don't think that UKIP will wave a magic wand and immigrants will suddenly stop trying to get to us or we will suddenly start deporting more people.

 

[Foxholer]

Anyone is allowed to claim asylum anywhere, but states may lawfully remove asylum seekers to safe third countries on the grounds that they could have claimed asylum there. The immigration rules state, however, that the secretary of state will only remove an asylum seeker to a safe third country if there is clear evidence that the country concerned will admit the person. This will be so if the person has arrived in the UK via another safe country and had an opportunity at the border of or within that country to claim asylum. The mere fact that the person has passed through another country does not necessarily mean there was an opportunity to claim asylum though; if an agent planned the journey and the person was hidden in a vehicle for the duration of it, for example, there is unlikely to have been any realistic opportunity for the person to approach the authorities.

You also have to consider that lots of these immigrants are stopped before they even get to us. And believe it or not the UK does deport a large proportion of them even if they do get through. In 2013 there were 50,741 foreign nationals removed from within the UK under immigration law - or known to have departed under threat of such removal - an increase of 14.5% from 2012 totals. This figure excludes individuals refused entry at port and subsequently removed. In 2013, 8,660 people who were removed or forced to depart were asylum cases, including 8,225 asylum applicants and 405 dependent family members.

So I'm not really sure what is getting you so worked up tbh. There is certainly a problem, but don't think that UKIP will wave a magic wand and immigrants will suddenly stop trying to get to us or we will suddenly start deporting more people.

Absolutely spot on! I was searching for those 'rules', which I believe are Universal, in the wrong places.

In the case of those at Calais, I believe it's a case of getting the French to sort out the problem for those identifiable at Calais, rather than conveniently (cue classic Gallic shoulder shrug!) allowing them through, thus passing the 'problem' to UK. In their defence, the French probably have a similar problem - as they could just as easily have first set foot in EU territory in another country!

 

[Hacker Khan]

But if, as you say, you do not read any newspapers how are yo so expert on the contents of the Daily Mail and equally certain which of your fellow forumers do read it?

Surely not lazy stereotyping on your well-informed part.

I see the headlines when I get petrol from the Supermarket petrol station. That's all I need.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Politically the EU may be a mess, it does need desperately reforming and it does interfere in too many issues of the individual countries.

But there is just about full agreement from serious economists that it is in out interests to stay in it. So I suspect the economic argument will eventually hold sway over the real and perceived issues with things like hoards of immigrants in Calais waiting to invade this country or Brussels telling us we can no longer have pints but have to go to half litres.

And I suspect the reluctance of governments to put membership to the vote is partly because they are scared that the public will put the real and sometimes vastly over exaggerated fears about things like immigration and not being able to extradite one or two high profile muslim clerics above the financial stability of the UK economy and it's ability to not go bust.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Politically the EU may be a mess, it does need desperately reforming and it does interfere in too many issues of the individual countries.

But there is just about full agreement from serious economists that it is in out interests to stay in it. So I suspect the economic argument will eventually hold sway over the real and perceived issues with things like hoards of immigrants in Calais waiting to invade this country or Brussels telling us we can no longer have pints but have to go to half litres.

And I suspect the reluctance of governments to put membership to the vote is partly because they are scared that the public will put the real and sometimes vastly over exaggerated fears about things like immigration and not being able to extradite one or two high profile muslim clerics above the financial stability of the UK economy and it's ability to not go bust.

That is an interesting point.

I am unable to see where there is anything like unanimity amongst economists, serious or otherwise, perhaps you could quote your source(s).

Personally I lean towards remaining within, albeit on a re-negotiated basis but, rather like the Scotland debate, there does appear to be a shortage of non-partisan information available to the public to assist the decision making process.

That shortage of information should not, however, be an excuse for not holding a referendum which I feel should be on the basis of the question not being asked again for at least 30 years regardless of the outcome. This should then enable us to "get on with it" afterwards.