European Super League

[Sweep]

The 6 were telling the others how the PL would work, otherwise they’d of announced plans and held discussions with the others. They were saying who would or would not qualify for Europe bia PL finish, not UEFA or the PL.

If the PL do nothing, how long until the 6 learn from their mistakes and try again?

There has to be some sort of action if they have broken rules.

As for all this “we need the 6” we don’t, let’s just pretend they disappeared off the face of the earth overnight, Football would continue, yes their maybe some downturn, but it would recover, they are not bigger than the game! Fans of other Clubs wouldn’t lose their passion or love for the game and the glory hunters would move on to the next team.

The game is bigger than the 6, and what people are doing is falling for their sob story. If someone billionaire buys Norwich tomorrow and they become the next Man City are they then the “Big 7”.

No Club or a few Club have the right to decide the future of our game.

They didn’t involve the other PL teams because it was a different league. It wasn’t about how the PL was going to work. If anything it was more about changing the Champions League. The PL itself could have carried on unaltered.
Punishment or not, this will come up again and eventually it will succeed in some form, most likely with full promotion and relegation. It’s a natural progression. If there was no interest the CL would be a failure.

If you (the other clubs) don’t need the 6 then why are you so upset? The fact is, the 6 aren’t going to disappear off the face of the earth (as much as you would like them to) and that means they remain the big crowd and money pullers and the other teams need them. And don’t make the mistake of thinking all supporters of the 6 are glory hunters because that demonstrates a significant lack of understanding.
And seriously, there is no sob story.
You are calling for punishment when you can’t even say any rule has been broken.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

They didn’t involve the other PL teams because it was a different league. It wasn’t about how the PL was going to work. If anything it was more about changing the Champions League. The PL itself could have carried on unaltered.
Punishment or not, this will come up again and eventually it will succeed in some form, most likely with full promotion and relegation. It’s a natural progression. If there was no interest the CL would be a failure.

If you (the other clubs) don’t need the 6 then why are you so upset? The fact is, the 6 aren’t going to disappear off the face of the earth (as much as you would like them to) and that means they remain the big crowd and money pullers and the other teams need them. And don’t make the mistake of thinking all supporters of the 6 are glory hunters because that demonstrates a significant lack of understanding.
And seriously, there is no sob story.
You are calling for punishment when you can’t even say any rule has been broken.

I didn’t say all supporters of the 6 are glory hunters, I said the glory hunters would move on to the next Club. The genuine fans are embarrassed by their Clubs behaviour.

Are you really being that naive in saying they weren’t going to change how the PL works? Wolves win the PL, West Ham finish runners up, Arsenal finish 12th and Utd 15th, the Clubs in 12th & 15th qualify for the CL or whatever the 6 were going to call it. UEFA said before the ESL collapsed they’d keep the CL, the ESL were replacing it, but somehow you say the PL would carry on unaltered.

It’s not the ESL’s job to make these decisions and impose these changes, regardless of how valuable they believe they are!

Yes I am calling for a punishment, some sort of action needs to be taken or are you suggesting we simply forget what they tried to do and move on?

 

[Pin-seeker]

I didn’t say all supporters of the 6 are glory hunters, I said the glory hunters would move on to the next Club. The genuine fans are embarrassed by their Clubs behaviour.

Are you really being that naive in saying they weren’t going to change how the PL works? Wolves win the PL, West Ham finish runners up, Arsenal finish 12th and Utd 15th, the Clubs in 12th & 15th qualify for the CL or whatever the 6 were going to call it. UEFA said before the ESL collapsed they’d keep the CL, the ESL were replacing it, but somehow you say the PL would carry on unaltered.

It’s not the ESL’s job to make these decisions and impose these changes, regardless of how valuable they believe they are!

Yes I am calling for a punishment, some sort of action needs to be taken or are you suggesting we simply forget what they tried to do and move on?

Seriously Paul have you heard yourself? ?‍

Look theres going to be no punishment & it will soon be business as usual ??
Football is full of greed & all the teams are as bad.

 

[Sweep]

I didn’t say all supporters of the 6 are glory hunters, I said the glory hunters would move on to the next Club. The genuine fans are embarrassed by their Clubs behaviour.

Are you really being that naive in saying they weren’t going to change how the PL works? Wolves win the PL, West Ham finish runners up, Arsenal finish 12th and Utd 15th, the Clubs in 12th & 15th qualify for the CL or whatever the 6 were going to call it. UEFA said before the ESL collapsed they’d keep the CL, the ESL were replacing it, but somehow you say the PL would carry on unaltered.

It’s not the ESL’s job to make these decisions and impose these changes, regardless of how valuable they believe they are!

Yes I am calling for a punishment, some sort of action needs to be taken or are you suggesting we simply forget what they tried to do and move on?

The current CL could have carried on as normal, just without the Super League clubs. The PL could have chosen to kick the 6 out altogether. sounds like your perfect scenario. How is that the 6 dictating how the PL works?

 

[larmen]

I keep hearing the 51% model as the way to go, especially this week. Brought in 22 years ago in Germany and Bayern Munich will have soon won 17 of the 22 league titles since including the last 9, along with several established clubs having gone to the wall

Is it really that wonderful if its creating one dominant force whose domination seems to increase year on year and other clubs effectively being feeder clubs to it as it has the ability to create more revenue becomes self fulfilling and make it harder and harder for other clubs to challenge it

It wasn’t restricted down to 49% investors, it was opened up to that. Before that it was all club owned.

And it’s not the fans, it’s the club who owns this. A bit like a private golf club.
If you are a member at Bayern Munich, for example you play volleyball there, then you get a vote. All those votes select the president, ... . Fans can be members, but passive members do not have votes. Of course, fans can become active members and just don’t turn up to play any sport, paying the full membership fee.
Members usually also get discounts in the club store or possibly on tickets.

There is no divide as you don’t have shares, you don’t own anything. The club owns it, you can vote and play sports.


RB Leipzig is different, but they had to start near the bottom and had to spend their way up. Leverkusen is different for historical reasons. Hoffenheim have Hopp as private investor who spend his SAP money on the club without taking more ownership. But he is from that little town and a fan all his life, not flown in from oversees because a club was available on the market.

Hamburg and Dortmund did sell shares up to 49%, not sure how they got out of it. I don’t think there are shareholders anymore.
Hamburg had an investor for a long time, but he had too much influence, the fans didn’t like it, the guy stopped spending, or cut it a lot, and Hamburg went down. Dortmund had financial troubles for a long time but got through it.

Bayern wins everything because players want to go there. Lewandowski was successful in Dortmund, Bayern just said we want you when your contract runs out and nothing Dortmund could do. They got into that position when they were ‘gifted’ a stadium after the 1972 Olympics. And they got the big sponsors for no reason. Telekom paid them like 20 million DM when they had a monopoly in Germany. The next highest team was getting 6 to 8 millions. It’s not like they needed the advertisement. Bayern opened the gap at the right time and it just grew from there. My team Werder was 2nd at the time and we missed the boat.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The current CL could have carried on as normal, just without the Super League clubs. The PL could have chosen to kick the 6 out altogether. sounds like your perfect scenario. How is that the 6 dictating how the PL works?

The ESL plan was to bin the CL and replace it with their Comp! And remain in the PL.

The ESL plan wasn’t up for discussion!

 

[theoneandonly]

Give it a week or two and it will have all blown over and it's back to business as usual. All this talk of punsishment and kicking them out of the Prem is nonsense.
Sky dont pay billions to show Everton v West Ham as their biggest game.

 

[Sweep]

The ESL plan was to bin the CL and replace it with their Comp! And remain in the PL.

The ESL plan wasn’t up for discussion!

As you say, it wasn’t for the 6 to dictate what happened to the CL. They just said they wanted to play in the Super League and not the CL. Nothing to stop the CL carrying on without the SL clubs. I am not sure why you would have a problem with that aspect of it. Unless deep down you know that the CL would be diminished, less attractive and less of an achievement without the SL clubs, just like the PL?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

As you say, it wasn’t for the 6 to dictate what happened to the CL. They just said they wanted to play in the Super League and not the CL. Nothing to stop the CL carrying on without the SL clubs. I am not sure why you would have a problem with that aspect of it. Unless deep down you know that the CL would be diminished, less attractive and less of an achievement without the SL clubs, just like the PL?

You stated the PL would carry on unaltered.

The ESL plan was to replace the CL not run along side it!

I gave you the example using Wolves as Champions, do you believe that scenario would of been fair?

It has nothing to do with the CL being diminished or the PL being less of an attraction or achievement, it’s about 12 Clubs around Europe dictating the future of the sport, working behind closed doors to protect themselves and it becoming a closed shop.

It’s OUR game not theirs.

 

[Sweep]

You stated the PL would carry on unaltered.

The ESL plan was to replace the CL not run along side it!

I gave you the example using Wolves as Champions, do you believe that scenario would of been fair?

It has nothing to do with the CL being diminished or the PL being less of an attraction or achievement, it’s about 12 Clubs around Europe dictating the future of the sport, working behind closed doors to protect themselves and it becoming a closed shop.

It’s OUR game not theirs.

There was no reason why the CL could not have carried on without the ESL clubs. I appreciate that this doesn’t fit your narrative but there you go. In your scenario Wolves would have been entered into the CL. The 6 wouldn’t. All perfectly fair. The ESL made no suggestion on the future of the CL. The only thing they were dictating was the ESL.
And BTW, the game doesn’t belong to anyone and this kind of romanticised nonsense is part of the problem.

 

[4LEX]

There was no reason why the CL could not have carried on without the ESL clubs. I appreciate that this doesn’t fit your narrative but there you go. In your scenario Wolves would have been entered into the CL. The 6 wouldn’t. All perfectly fair. The ESL made no suggestion on the future of the CL. The only thing they were dictating was the ESL.
And BTW, the game doesn’t belong to anyone and this kind of romanticised nonsense is part of the problem.

Bang ya head against a wall it might knock some sense in.

The Super League is now Barcelona v Real Madrid over 18 games, where the quarter finals, semi final and final are also Barcelona v Real Madrid These clubs are financially screwed, genuinely hope Real go under. I've been to both grounds and Real Madrid especially deserve everything coming their way. These are the fans who booed Ronaldo after he'd scored 300 goals for them because he went on a 6 game goal drought. Shitstain on European football and Perez is as big a crook as Blatter.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

There was no reason why the CL could not have carried on without the ESL clubs. I appreciate that this doesn’t fit your narrative but there you go. In your scenario Wolves would have been entered into the CL. The 6 wouldn’t. All perfectly fair. The ESL made no suggestion on the future of the CL. The only thing they were dictating was the ESL.
And BTW, the game doesn’t belong to anyone and this kind of romanticised nonsense is part of the problem.

Are you on a wind up?

The narrative was set by the ESL plan, under that plan they would see the CL being replaced by their League.

It was UEFA who struck back by saying it was down to them if the CL continued.

Think about it!! The ESL matches were to be played midweek, Man City win this years League, how do they play in both the ESL and CL.

As for your last paragraph it sums up those who don’t understand just what the game means to the normal fan.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Bang ya head against a wall it might knock some sense in.

The Super League is now Barcelona v Real Madrid over 18 games, where the quarter finals, semi final and final are also Barcelona v Real Madrid These clubs are financially screwed, genuinely hope Real go under. I've been to both grounds and Real Madrid especially deserve everything coming their way. These are the fans who booed Ronaldo after he'd scored 300 goals for them because he went on a 6 game goal drought. Shitstain on European football and Perez is as big a crook as Blatter.

Both of those clubs will be fine financially

Always got the local government and banks to help them out

 

[Old Skier]

Have the “big six” actually broken any rules, I suppose at a push the could be charged with bringing the game into disrepute. As to the “why punish the fans” attitude, as someone who supports a club that suffered under “the rules” even though the rules were broken to save the third oldest club in the UK nobody shouted that it was unfair to the fans.
aIf rules were broken then punish, if they weren’t , move on.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Have the “big six” actually broken any rules, I suppose at a push the could be charged with bringing the game into disrepute. As to the “why punish the fans” attitude, as someone who supports a club that suffered under “the rules” even though the rules were broken to save the third oldest club in the UK nobody shouted that it was unfair to the fans.
aIf rules were broken then punish, if they weren’t , move on.

Bringing the game into disrepute potentially but I’m not sure what other rules they could have broken - the ESL wasn’t to replace the Prem , it was for those clubs to play instead of playing the CL. UEFA would have still run the CL but without 20 clubs that were in this ESL nonsense. But the Prem would have carried out etc

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Have the “big six” actually broken any rules, I suppose at a push the could be charged with bringing the game into disrepute. As to the “why punish the fans” attitude, as someone who supports a club that suffered under “the rules” even though the rules were broken to save the third oldest club in the UK nobody shouted that it was unfair to the fans.
aIf rules were broken then punish, if they weren’t , move on.

Said before it needs to be made clear if they’ve broken any rules before any decisions are made, but it does seem repercussions have started.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ommittees-after-european-super-league-debacle

 

[Sweep]

Are you on a wind up?

The narrative was set by the ESL plan, under that plan they would see the CL being replaced by their League.

It was UEFA who struck back by saying it was down to them if the CL continued.

Think about it!! The ESL matches were to be played midweek, Man City win this years League, how do they play in both the ESL and CL.

As for your last paragraph it sums up those who don’t understand just what the game means to the normal fan.

Good grief.
The ESL clubs weren’t going to play in the CL. They wouldn’t be playing in both. Win it this year or not. ESL clubs resigned their places on European associations. As you say, UEFA were going to carry on with it regardless.
I understand perfectly what football means to the average fan. The game though doesn’t belong to any one person or group. It’s a game. You can’t own it.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Have the “big six” actually broken any rules, I suppose at a push the could be charged with bringing the game into disrepute. As to the “why punish the fans” attitude, as someone who supports a club that suffered under “the rules” even though the rules were broken to save the third oldest club in the UK nobody shouted that it was unfair to the fans.
aIf rules were broken then punish, if they weren’t , move on.

Potentially Premier League rule L9.

"Except with the prior written approval of the board, during the season a club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than

L.9.1 – The UEFA Champions League
L.9.2 – The UEFA Europa League
L.9.3 – The FA Cup
L.9.4 – The FA Community Shield
L.9.5 – The Football League Cup or
L.9.6 – Competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."

I would assume that by agreeing to join the ESL the clubs have fallen foul of this as they have agreed to "enter" a competition that isn't on the list and hasn't been agreed by the PL. No idea what the sanctions would be if they are found to have breached this rule.

 

[Sweep]

Potentially Premier League rule L9.

"Except with the prior written approval of the board, during the season a club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than

L.9.1 – The UEFA Champions League
L.9.2 – The UEFA Europa League
L.9.3 – The FA Cup
L.9.4 – The FA Community Shield
L.9.5 – The Football League Cup or
L.9.6 – Competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."

I would assume that by agreeing to join the ESL the clubs have fallen foul of this as they have agreed to "enter" a competition that isn't on the list and hasn't been agreed by the PL. No idea what the sanctions would be if they are found to have breached this rule.

I may be wrong but didn’t their statements say they had signed letters of intent to join the ESL? If so, intending to break a rule is not the same as breaking one.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Good grief.
The ESL clubs weren’t going to play in the CL. They wouldn’t be playing in both. Win it this year or not. ESL clubs resigned their places on European associations. As you say, UEFA were going to carry on with it regardless.
I understand perfectly what football means to the average fan. The game though doesn’t belong to any one person or group. It’s a game. You can’t own it.

If they are part of the FA/PL and enter their competitions they are expected to abide by the rules, they don’t have the authority or right to pick and choose what they play! ie, The winners of the PL are entered into the following seasons CL, the 6 have no right to turn around and say, “no thanks we’ll pick and choose which rules we abide by and which we ignore.

They expected everybody to roll over and be thankful! And it seems you are the only person in the Country defending them!