Equal prize money, lack of support.

[Jacko_G]

It's already been summed up in this thread, but the crux is that everyone is using the word "equality" to suit their own agendas.

People who want to bash the LPGA tour will say, the event represented 100% equality, same prize money for men and women.
People who want to support the LPGA tour will say that this is not really what is meant by equality, as it's the lowest purse on tour.

Meanwhile, in the real world, the event actually was pretty equal, the prize money was the same, the fields were equal in their lack of top stars, both male and female.

Really this is non-story, apart from for those on either side wanting to push an agenda.

Nobody is using it to suit their own agenda. There is clearly a pay gap between the ladies and men's professional tour. We can argue why and what causes it all day long. Whatever side of the fence you sit on influences your reply but that doesn't mean you are arguing to push an agenda.

Andy Murray is vocal about it in the tennis world, he feels that it's wrong. Personally I think he is correct but that is only my opinion.

More could/should be done to bridge that gap.

 

[Jacko_G]

I don't really even see a question. Like I said, the Ladies in golf aren't making a big deal about equal prize money. They realise it's a business and would be unrealistic to effectively be 'subsidised' by mens tournaments.

Personally think there is a market for more events like the Vic Open and maybe more team events with men and ladies playing alongside each other. It would be quite good to see a mixed matchplay event, but you have to be realistic about the players that would turn up for that.

In fact, and event like the Vic Open with 'market value' prize money might actually be a better draw. In reality the Vic Open prize fund was small, even by LPGA standards.
You would likely get better fields on both sides and greater interest in the event and more coverage for players, their sponsors and their tours.


But while sponsors, broadcasters and fans are quite happy watching 72 hole stroke play events, these will continue to dominate the golfing schedule.

They have to keep doing what they are doing and try and encourage people to their events as best they can.

And as I say to people who moan about the status quo... if you don't like it then go and support an event. Go and pay to get in and watch the Womans British Open, the Solheim Cup, ladies football, rugby etc.

If you just have a moan and keep on doing what you are doing, nothing will change.

A lot of waffle without saying anything!

🤯

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Nobody is using it to suit their own agenda. There is clearly a pay gap between the ladies and men's professional tour. We can argue why and what causes it all day long. Whatever side of the fence you sit on influences your reply but that doesn't mean you are arguing to push an agenda.

Andy Murray is vocal about it in the tennis world, he feels that it's wrong. Personally I think he is correct but that is only my opinion.

More could/should be done to bridge that gap.

The gap exists because the product is not as attractive. It's a little like saying badminton should get the same prize money as in tennis, they are both racquet sports, both participants work as hard. The problem is that one sport has people wanting to watch it, the other doesn't in sufficient numbers. That is life. Same as in men's and women's sport. Make the womens game attractive to watch and the money will come. You can force money out of one sport and into another but that is artificial and, imo, unfair on those players who are providing a spectacle that people want to watch.

Ultimate equality is all sexes playing the same sport, no separate teams, the best players winning. That doesn't exist, a few notable exceptions mainly horse related, so straight away there is no equality. It is an artificial argument.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

You can see here though why there is the repeated calls for the LET to get more recognition and bigger purses. https://ladieseuropeantour.com/schedule-page/?cn-reloaded=1

These prize funds for the majority of events are paltry, especially once accommodation, travel, caddies etc are taken into account and it's small wonder the LET is struggling to grow. It's a catch 22 though as without the big names, sponsors won't stump up to support events, and the top players won't play for minimal returns. The knock on effect is most will try and qualify for the LPGA but the knock on effect has to be the deficit of up and coming talent for things like the Solheim Cup

 

[Grant85]

Sorry I can't agree with that and would like to ask have you actually kept current with ladies golf. There have been many of the top stars questioning the pay gap in recent years so lots are bothered by it.

I think the lack of high profile female attendees at the Vic Open confirms that they don't care about equal prize money, they care about more prize money.

 

[AmandaJR]

The event was a big kick in the teeth for the LET and that's a shame...unlikely many of the top LPGA players were ever likely to bother!

https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/news/tour-news/let-dealt-blow-vic-open-lpga-tour-169265

 

[need_my_wedge]

The event was a big kick in the teeth for the LET and that's a shame...unlikely many of the top LPGA players were ever likely to bother!

https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/news/tour-news/let-dealt-blow-vic-open-lpga-tour-169265

Thanks Amanda, that was the article I was trying to find.

 

[Wolf]

I think the lack of high profile female attendees at the Vic Open confirms that they don't care about equal prize money, they care about more prize money.

Of course they care about more prize money have you seen what LET players earn and then factor in costs of travel.

I also can't t work out if you're being purposely pedantic or dismissive or ladies deserving to earn more to continue to play and earn a living.

If they get more prize money it brings it closer to equality of pay that's quite simple.

As an example Ashun Wu ranked 50th in the Race to Dubai last year made £861,484 a nice princely sum that covers travel, living costs and still leaves plenty afterward to stash away for a decent lifestyle. The equivalent LET 5oth placed player Celine Herbin made £23,618. Now take out costs of travel and accommodation to the 18 tour events the tour held and Caddy costs what you think she is left with.

So yes they're wanting more money and something closer to equality why shouldn't they.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think the lack of high profile female attendees at the Vic Open confirms that they don't care about equal prize money, they care about more prize money.

Or it’s early season and players are still tailoring their early season - it won’t just be about the money , the top LPGA players won’t worry about rhe money

It’s a shame they stopped the connection with the LET but then unfortunately there aren’t many big names on the LET to attract the attention.

There are lots of other reasons besides just prize fund that stopped players playing there

Nobody is using it to suit their own agenda. There is clearly a pay gap between the ladies and men's professional tour. We can argue why and what causes it all day long. Whatever side of the fence you sit on influences your reply but that doesn't mean you are arguing to push an agenda.

Andy Murray is vocal about it in the tennis world, he feels that it's wrong. Personally I think he is correct but that is only my opinion.

More could/should be done to bridge that gap.

The gap is down to the sponsorships

The LPGA is prob on the same level as the ET but the US Tour is streets ahead - because they get the players and the sponsership but I think it’s always going to be like that unless they change the way they work out the ranking points

Base it on the competition not who is playing

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I can’t help thinking though that trying this format out at an event on the other side of the World wasn’t the best way to do it.
I don’t consider Australia part of Europe or anything near it, so having it on the LET doesn’t really equate in my mind.
Why not try this at an event in France say, that would be more representable.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I can’t help thinking though that trying this format out at an event on the other side of the World wasn’t the best way to do it.
I don’t consider Australia part of Europe or anything near it, so having it on the LET doesn’t really equate in my mind.
Why not try this at an event in France say, that would be more representable.

I think you have a good point. Why not try starting by tagging it onto the Golf Sixes event (is that happening in 2019?) or something similar which is a different format for both the men and the women and so usually gets a little bit of media attention anyway. If the LET can piggy bank the ET for some events it has to help with sponsorship, attracting players and exposure. I really can't see how they expected an event on the other side of the world with a hugely different time zone could possibly hope to galvanise interest

 

[need_my_wedge]

I can’t help thinking though that trying this format out at an event on the other side of the World wasn’t the best way to do it.
I don’t consider Australia part of Europe or anything near it, so having it on the LET doesn’t really equate in my mind.
Why not try this at an event in France say, that would be more representable.

From what I understand, this wasn't the first time, they've been running this format, it's been run as a combined event since 2012. But it's the first time the LPGA was included, at the expense of the LET. I'm guessing the inclusion of the LPGA was to highten the profile, which has failed miserabley because it was sadly ignored by many of the higher profile LPGA players, for whatever reasons.

I agree, that running this format may be better in a more local event on the LET or even the LPGA, but it is getting a sponsor to push it through that may be a challenge.

Personally, I enjoyed it, and thought it worked quite well. Be happy to see more of these.

 

[Aussie Swinger]

Thanks Amanda, that was the article I was trying to find.

I have also heard from sources here in Australia that is was offered to the LPGA THIS year as not enough LET players took up the invite the previous year.
Maybe the answer lies in Amandas golf monthly article report when Beth Allen says
” Myself & many other members of the LET have supported the event from the start. To be excluded the year that the event has reached over 1 million AUD is so disappointing.’
Being maybe cynical, you could read her article to infact say myself and many may not have been all that many players in reality, coupled with the fact that the prize fund was ONLY $1M ( not to be sniffed at), but now the prize funds gone higher more of us want to play. Sucks again of wanting our cake and eat it mentalality possibly?

 

[Slab]

I thought I’d have a look to see if I could figure out exactly what it is that some folk think the elite LPGA players were supposed to ‘Support’ in this event

We can see it’s not the dosh because it’s the lowest pot of the year on either tour, although Iain Carter seems to have a different slant on this because he just says “it’s not the biggest”
(Bit of a different point of view there. Mind you he also thinks the prize pot was $1.5m when it was a smidge over $1m because he has his currencies mixed up between AUD & USD)

The other thing mentioned is an equal status/stature for the women’s event but I can’t see what that really means because both fields had 156 players but that seemed to frivolous so I had a look at the stature of the men’s field (which I’ve already said lacked any stars whatsoever) but it still surprised me that the average world ranking in the mens tournament was a paltry 713!

So assuming the LPGA elite did turn up as some wanted them too, exactly how is alternating the world’s best women players with what can only be compared to a 4th division mens field supposed to represent equal stature in the game, isn’t that a bit of an insult and sending completely the wrong message

I wouldn’t be surprised if secretly the elite LPGA players were a bit miffed at the comparative field/prize fund they were expected to travel 20 -30 thousand miles to embrace & support but they can hardly come out and say so

I watched about 8 hours live and highlights coverage across the 4 days and enjoyed it including both tournaments being decided within minutes at the end. I hope they do more to integrate the tours and add variety to what we watch and there was no detriment to the mens game by having the womens comp at the same time, but much as I’d have liked them to be there I can’t see anything to warrant finger pointing at the top women players for not making the trip

The tours got exactly the standard of attendees they planned for

 

[Aussie Swinger]

I think you have a good point. Why not try starting by tagging it onto the Golf Sixes event (is that happening in 2019?) or something similar which is a different format for both the men and the women and so usually gets a little bit of media attention anyway. If the LET can piggy bank the ET for some events it has to help with sponsorship, attracting players and exposure. I really can't see how they expected an event on the other side of the world with a hugely different time zone could possibly hope to galvanise interest

Possibly because only Dr Handa is the only sponsor willing to try to take on this challenge in the first place. As I have said earlier, you need to show willing, no matter how small it starts. This generation of lady golfer will not get pay parity in their golfing lifetimes. But by making a start, however small, they may just be the pioneers for future players. To put one head in the sand because of no perceived immediate gain will have the sponsors saying ‘what’s the point in flogging a dead horse if no one can see outside their own bubble on the world of golf?’

 

[Aussie Swinger]

Maybe we should cut to the chase. There is only so much porridge to go round. The ladies product is not as appealing to sponsors as the men’s game AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME - Fact
The fact that probably only the top 50 women in the world can make a decent living each year out of it (£100k) is sad, but that’s the reality of it. Then try telling that 1st world problem to the UK’S best badminton player and I’m sure she would cry you some crocodile tears.
I go back to the point, you need to start somewhere, even if it is a lowly event in Australia, but expecting to just walk in ‘on the big time stage’ on the back of the men’s product ain’t going to happen anytime soon.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Possibly because only Dr Handa is the only sponsor willing to try to take on this challenge in the first place. As I have said earlier, you need to show willing, no matter how small it starts. This generation of lady golfer will not get pay parity in their golfing lifetimes. But by making a start, however small, they may just be the pioneers for future players. To put one head in the sand because of no perceived immediate gain will have the sponsors saying ‘what’s the point in flogging a dead horse if no one can see outside their own bubble on the world of golf?’

Of course. If no-one dares to be innovative, the status quo never changes. It has to be a two way street though. Sponsors need to be prepared to put up with these things taking time to get off the ground and get an air of recognition but the players have the responsibility of backing it and helping it to grow. At the moment, both sides, this event aside, seem reluctant. It's the old chicken and the egg syndrome. It will change eventually but what state will the LET in particular be in by then and what will the standard be like. With their limited purses and schedule I'm afraid I can only see it going backwards at the moment and so where will the opportunities come for the next generation to come through to emulate Georgia Hall's major

 

[Dibby]

Maybe we should cut to the chase. There is only so much porridge to go round. The ladies product is not as appealing to sponsors as the men’s game AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME - Fact
The fact that probably only the top 50 women in the world can make a decent living each year out of it (£100k) is sad, but that’s the reality of it. Then try telling that 1st world problem to the UK’S best badminton player and I’m sure she would cry you some crocodile tears.
I go back to the point, you need to start somewhere, even if it is a lowly event in Australia, but expecting to just walk in ‘on the big time stage’ on the back of the men’s product ain’t going to happen anytime soon.

Can you clarify your point? Who needs to start somewhere? The LPGA players that snubbed this event? They can make more money by attending literally any other LPGA event on this years calendar except for this one. Why would they turn up, just because the pay is the same as one of the lowest paid men's events? What would that achieve?

 

[Aussie Swinger]

Not sure that’s representative

That would mean it went something like this:

“We want to showcase our talent to a wider audience and have an equal prize fund to the men, but….

• Can you make it happen on the most inaccessible week of the tour calendar please
• Can you also make it live to the smallest possible viewership in Europe and the US
• And just for kicks can you make the payday smaller than every other payday we already get

Cheers fellas”


Which players asked for that?

1, It was not on the most inaccessible week, go and check the LPGA and LET schedules. There were no other tournaments conflicting on either tour, infact the LET last event was January 1-13 and LPGA Jan17-20.
2. Dr Handa was the only sponsor to offer this format up. So doing it for your viewing pleasure in Europe was not going to happen. Also, last time I looked Sky had a record function on their boxes..
3. The payday was equivalent or more than that offered on the Ladies Scottish Open I’m lead to believe, hardly peanuts then.....Cheers Slab

 

[Aussie Swinger]

Can you clarify your point? Who needs to start somewhere? The LPGA players that snubbed this event? They can make more money by attending literally any other LPGA event on this years calendar except for this one. Why would they turn up, just because the pay is the same as one of the lowest paid men's events? What would that achieve?[
Your right, let’s keep (some people)moaning about inequality and pay, then when given the chance, blow it off...