Equal prize money, lack of support.

[Aussie Swinger]

So having initially given stick for what I perceived as a lack of ‘written’ pre tournament coverage to the ISPS Vic Open by the BBC/Iain Carter. I have to say that Iain has come up with very good piece on the BBC golf website today.
In a nutshell, he lamented that the women’s tours and a lot of the players has been vocal in their pursuit of equality in terms of pay and stature.
Up pops Mr Handa, a great supporter of golf, and women’s golf in particular with an event finally giving equal status and pay to both the men’s and women’s games.
How do the women that have been so vocal finally support this great initiative? Very poorly, and as Carter said, only 4 out of the women’s top 50 players making the effort to attend.
I think as the promoter made the effort, it was the duty of the ladies tours top players too attend? The ‘it was to far to go’ does not wash.
I have checked and it clashed with no other European/LPGA events. In fact their was no tournament for either tours in the preceding week making travel difficult. As an aside the Australian ladies open is co-sanctioned the following week so it does not have to be a ‘one off’ long haul flight event.
People keep singing for equality, but when it happens, and players fail to support, then my sympathy begins to fail. As I suspect does that of future promoters perhaps?

 

[User20204]

He made quite a reference to such few of the top women attending in his podcast "The Cut" last week.

 

[Wolf]

He made quite a reference to such few of the top women attending in his podcast "The Cut" last week.

I listened to that to and it summed up the irony of them wanting equality but soon as parity is given less than a handful supported a great initiative. Also I think I'm right in saying they spoke about this being co-sanctioned, but not with the LET but with Lpga tour because last year the LET had a poor showing for it so went after the bigger tour, gave equal money and still such a poor support effort.

Such a shame as its a great idea and way to bring women's golf to the fire and I'd love to see more done like this but the ladies need to get behind it to

 

[srixon 1]

They want equality, but in the USA. You can't always have cake and eat it.

 

[Grant85]

I don’t really see that we ever will, or ever should, get to equal prize money. Sport is a business reliant on commercial returns. If an event, or a series of events, aren’t generating enough viewers / sponsors / revenue... change it / get better / be more interesting.

Making it equal for the sake of it is a bit like communism. Ultimately it takes away the incentive for the product to get better. One side gets complacent, while the other resentful.

I personally would watch more ladies golf, but there isn’t a huge amount of it televised. And if there were Scottish players at the top of the game I would probably even seek it out and pay for a stream.

The Vic Open was certainly an interesting concept and one I think we will see more of. Biggest plus for me was having 2 competitions, which increases the likelihood of sporting drama.

However we aren’t about to see a raft of high profile events running 2 tournaments like this. In America Ladies golf is doing just fine and the top players are making enough money and don’t need or want to play alongside men that, with all due respect, not many people have heard of.

 

[Slab]

So having initially given stick for what I perceived as a lack of ‘written’ pre tournament coverage to the ISPS Vic Open by the BBC/Iain Carter. I have to say that Iain has come up with very good piece on the BBC golf website today.
In a nutshell, he lamented that the women’s tours and a lot of the players has been vocal in their pursuit of equality in terms of pay and stature.
Up pops Mr Handa, a great supporter of golf, and women’s golf in particular with an event finally giving equal status and pay to both the men’s and women’s games.
How do the women that have been so vocal finally support this great initiative? Very poorly, and as Carter said, only 4 out of the women’s top 50 players making the effort to attend.
I think as the promoter made the effort, it was the duty of the ladies tours top players too attend? The ‘it was to far to go’ does not wash.
I have checked and it clashed with no other European/LPGA events. In fact their was no tournament for either tours in the preceding week making travel difficult. As an aside the Australian ladies open is co-sanctioned the following week so it does not have to be a ‘one off’ long haul flight event.
People keep singing for equality, but when it happens, and players fail to support, then my sympathy begins to fail. As I suspect does that of future promoters perhaps?

I'm sure they'd have loved a much stronger field for the event but first and foremost I saw it as a proof of concept exercise. Running two comps side by side with 300 players with alternate tee-off must have had its challenges so why not pick an event, one of the smallest on the tour that normally wouldn't get much attention, to test it out (plus the event gets some added publicity)

On that score the event/s seemed to be a success and I see no barriers to taking it forward & doing the same at a mid level tour event next time

Re attendance I don't think the time, distance and cost commitments of attending can be so easily dismissed, it is after-all, still a journey to the other side of the planet and while not withstanding it was an equal prize pot it was still a very small pot meaning only a win or very high placing would make sense for the LPGA's top 50

This was aptly demonstrated by the abysmal attendance of the mens event by the ET regulars (no top 50 players) & just 6 from 50-100 which is perhaps a more comparable financial scale when compared to the LPGA top 50) Not heard it but I'm sure Iain Carter will have brought that up too?

The usual men from the ET events ditched this event in their droves despite a double header also being available down under and it has to be asked why?
If a male ET member ranked in the 40's or 50's wont go why should a woman ranked in the top 20 (& I've already addressed the equal but still very small prize pot)

I think its shocking if Carter has intimated any kind of 'well ladies you had your chance but it seems you didn't want it/couldn't be bothered' attitude. It smacks of saying, we're tired of hearing you moan about it so we set up an equal pay event on the opposite side of the world for you, not our fault if you didn't embrace it!

Good on the sponsors and tours for setting this up, I enjoyed the coverage and look forward to the next one

 

[Imurg]

So was it a success?
If it was, and I think to a large extent it was, what happens next year?
The facts about the prize pot and travel are valid without a doubt.
But, to a point, this was a chance for Women to turn up in their droves to play the same course at the same time as the Men and get exposure for their "product".
The top men don't need to go to Australia to get exposure, they get it in Abu Dhabi and across Europe every other week
The girls don't. They need air time.
They've been crying out for the chance to show what they can do.
This was a chance.
And they didn't take it well enough.
I applaud those that went and competed.
Just think how much more exposure there would have been of a few more of the top players turned up, those who maybe don't need the money but could support the initiative in an effort to grow their side of the game.
Don't get me wrong, I still think this was a good idea that has potential.
But it needs bigger names to get involved if they're going to make any headway.
Without looking....who won the Women's event....?

 

[Grant85]

People in this thread, and Iain Carter, seem to be starting from the point of ‘woman should have been clamouring to play in order to get equal prize money’.

I don’t really think woman are saying this and the lack of attendance from the top LPGA players suggest they don’t care that much, even if they thought it was the start of something that might improve prize pots.

Like I said, we won’t get equal prize money. Yes, you could have an event with a larger prize pool that will get a chunk of the top 50 ladies over, but it won’t even register with the top 50 guys.

It might be equal, but the fields won’t be equal.

Paul Casey got $820,000 for finishing 2nd at Pebble. That is more than double the combined men’s and woman’s winners prizes at the Vic Open. And missing from Pebble were still a raft of top men’s players.

 

[Jacko_G]

People in this thread, and Iain Carter, seem to be starting from the point of ‘woman should have been clamouring to play in order to get equal prize money’.

I don’t really think woman are saying this and the lack of attendance from the top LPGA players suggest they don’t care that much, even if they thought it was the start of something that might improve prize pots.

Like I said, we won’t get equal prize money. Yes, you could have an event with a larger prize pool that will get a chunk of the top 50 ladies over, but it won’t even register with the top 50 guys.

It might be equal, but the fields won’t be equal.

Paul Casey got $820,000 for finishing 2nd at Pebble. That is more than double the combined men’s and woman’s winners prizes at the Vic Open. And missing from Pebble were still a raft of top men’s players.

Still doesn't make it right.

Personally I am 100% behind the equality in prize money but appreciate that their are "barriers" preventing this from happening. Perception and sponsorship being a couple of them.

You mention equal fields, you don't get equal fields when European Tour Events and USPGA events clash so you'll never get that in a joint venture between male and female tours. Schedules and circumstances will always dictate so.

I'm not sure what the answer is nor do I have a solution. That said I agree that the ladies have done themselves no favours by not supporting this tournament in a more favourable way.

Perhaps sporting "inequalities" are destined to be with us for a long time. Handa deserves huge credit for their support and equal split prize money on offer. Maybe in time it'll attract a greater field and greater coverage but maybe by then it'll be too late?

 

[Slab]

I think there's a danger in clinging to the equal prize money tagline in this 'test event' as somehow being a draw for the LPGA stars

Even with the same prize pot as the men the Vic Open represents the smallest prize pot of the entire LPGA season. So as a player unless you are playing in every event this will be the first one for them to drop surely. That's how big an event the Vic Open is
It also means attending it would keep a US based player away from home for over a month as the forthcoming schedule means they cant return until early March, the travel is just not practical

If the aim was purely to get the big names to attend they picked the wrong event and location (dare I say it would be like setting it up to fail to bring the stars over)
If it was to see if the format will work and showcase women's golf alongside mens then they easily ticked that box (to the already very limited audience) with a full field on both sides and two closely fought out tournaments

 

[Homer]

Australian tax rules aren’t exactly attractive either!

 

[Aussie Swinger]

So was it a success?
If it was, and I think to a large extent it was, what happens next year?
The facts about the prize pot and travel are valid without a doubt.
But, to a point, this was a chance for Women to turn up in their droves to play the same course at the same time as the Men and get exposure for their "product".
The top men don't need to go to Australia to get exposure, they get it in Abu Dhabi and across Europe every other week
The girls don't. They need air time.
They've been crying out for the chance to show what they can do.
This was a chance.
And they didn't take it well enough.
I applaud those that went and competed.
Just think how much more exposure there would have been of a few more of the top players turned up, those who maybe don't need the money but could support the initiative in an effort to grow their side of the game.
Don't get me wrong, I still think this was a good idea that has potential.
But it needs bigger names to get involved if they're going to make any headway.
Without looking....who won the Women's event....?

Great points Fella, I think this expands very well on my initial thread about it being an opportunity. You can’t just expect it to happen alongside the 4 majors. From little acorns and all that. They wanted it, they asked for it, now go and support it. It’s not about the cash, it’s about supporting the core things and principles that they championed. Handa gave them an opportunity, and most seemed to me at least to have turned their noses up at it.

 

[Kellfire]

It’s about football but it’s the same principles. Women shouldn’t get equal pay in golf.

 

[Aussie Swinger]

Australian tax rules aren’t exactly attractive either!

Your right, and I know it. However the remaining top 46 women might have tried to see the the bigger picture and opportunity presented to them. Bang the drum, but when people are asked to get out of the trenches...

 

[Slab]

Great points Fella, I think this expands very well on my initial thread about it being an opportunity. You can’t just expect it to happen alongside the 4 majors. From little acorns and all that. They wanted it, they asked for it, now go and support it. It’s not about the cash, it’s about supporting the core things and principles that they championed. Handa gave them an opportunity, and most seemed to me at least to have turned their noses up at it.

Not sure that’s representative

That would mean it went something like this:

“We want to showcase our talent to a wider audience and have an equal prize fund to the men, but….

• Can you make it happen on the most inaccessible week of the tour calendar please
• Can you also make it live to the smallest possible viewership in Europe and the US
• And just for kicks can you make the payday smaller than every other payday we already get

Cheers fellas”


Which players asked for that?

 

[Grant85]

Still doesn't make it right.

Personally I am 100% behind the equality in prize money but appreciate that their are "barriers" preventing this from happening. Perception and sponsorship being a couple of them.

You mention equal fields, you don't get equal fields when European Tour Events and USPGA events clash so you'll never get that in a joint venture between male and female tours. Schedules and circumstances will always dictate so.

I'm not sure what the answer is nor do I have a solution. That said I agree that the ladies have done themselves no favours by not supporting this tournament in a more favourable way.

Perhaps sporting "inequalities" are destined to be with us for a long time. Handa deserves huge credit for their support and equal split prize money on offer. Maybe in time it'll attract a greater field and greater coverage but maybe by then it'll be too late?

I don't really even see a question. Like I said, the Ladies in golf aren't making a big deal about equal prize money. They realise it's a business and would be unrealistic to effectively be 'subsidised' by mens tournaments.

Personally think there is a market for more events like the Vic Open and maybe more team events with men and ladies playing alongside each other. It would be quite good to see a mixed matchplay event, but you have to be realistic about the players that would turn up for that.

In fact, and event like the Vic Open with 'market value' prize money might actually be a better draw. In reality the Vic Open prize fund was small, even by LPGA standards.
You would likely get better fields on both sides and greater interest in the event and more coverage for players, their sponsors and their tours.


But while sponsors, broadcasters and fans are quite happy watching 72 hole stroke play events, these will continue to dominate the golfing schedule.

They have to keep doing what they are doing and try and encourage people to their events as best they can.

And as I say to people who moan about the status quo... if you don't like it then go and support an event. Go and pay to get in and watch the Womans British Open, the Solheim Cup, ladies football, rugby etc.

If you just have a moan and keep on doing what you are doing, nothing will change.

 

[Dibby]

It's already been summed up in this thread, but the crux is that everyone is using the word "equality" to suit their own agendas.

People who want to bash the LPGA tour will say, the event represented 100% equality, same prize money for men and women.
People who want to support the LPGA tour will say that this is not really what is meant by equality, as it's the lowest purse on tour.

Meanwhile, in the real world, the event actually was pretty equal, the prize money was the same, the fields were equal in their lack of top stars, both male and female.

Really this is non-story, apart from for those on either side wanting to push an agenda.

 

[Wolf]

I don't really even see a question. Like I said, the Ladies in golf aren't making a big deal about equal prize money. They realise it's a business and would be unrealistic to effectively be 'subsidised' by mens tournaments.

Personally think there is a market for more events like the Vic Open and maybe more team events with men and ladies playing alongside each other. It would be quite good to see a mixed matchplay event, but you have to be realistic about the players that would turn up for that.

In fact, and event like the Vic Open with 'market value' prize money might actually be a better draw. In reality the Vic Open prize fund was small, even by LPGA standards.
You would likely get better fields on both sides and greater interest in the event and more coverage for players, their sponsors and their tours.


But while sponsors, broadcasters and fans are quite happy watching 72 hole stroke play events, these will continue to dominate the golfing schedule.

They have to keep doing what they are doing and try and encourage people to their events as best they can.

And as I say to people who moan about the status quo... if you don't like it then go and support an event. Go and pay to get in and watch the Womans British Open, the Solheim Cup, ladies football, rugby etc.

If you just have a moan and keep on doing what you are doing, nothing will change.

Sorry I can't agree with that and would like to ask have you actually kept current with ladies golf. There have been many of the top stars questioning the pay gap in recent years so lots are bothered by it.

 

[need_my_wedge]

I think as the promoter made the effort, it was the duty of the ladies tours top players too attend? The ‘it was to far to go’ does not wash.
I have checked and it clashed with no other European/LPGA events. In fact their was no tournament for either tours in the preceding week making travel difficult. As an aside the Australian ladies open is co-sanctioned the following week so it does not have to be a ‘one off’ long haul flight event.
People keep singing for equality, but when it happens, and players fail to support, then my sympathy begins to fail. As I suspect does that of future promoters perhaps?

I can't find the article I read last week, but I'm sure that it had something about LET ladies being excluded in favour of LPGA ladies, and they were upset because they wanted to come and play but couldn't. Trying to track it down, I see Iain Carter refernces in his article, that the LPGA ladies let down the LET ladies by not supporting it

That's why it was a big pity that only four of the top 50 in the women's world rankings turned up for the LPGA backed event. Those absentees from the only professional golf Open offering equal prize money let down their fellow players, especially the Ladies European Tour members who had been biffed from the event after the big sister tour took over this year.

The qualifying page on the Vic Open website makes no mention of qualifying for the LET

It's a shame that there wasn't more support from the higher profile ladies, maybe they'll include the LET again next year, but I don't know how that will affect the LPGA high flyers. Likely they are not interested in the money, the LPGA tour probably pays them just fine, but the LET is in a bigger need for more prize money, probably more would have travelled from Europe. Maybe the LPGA players are like the blokes, they don't like windy links courses with tough lies, they prefer the manicured wide open spaces the Americans seem to love

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I’m a bit confused?

Wasn’t the call for more exposure and money etc from the LET ? Where as this event was sanctioned by the LPGA who have no real issues of funding etc ?

It was a minor tour event for both the ET and LPGA with not many ranking points and prize money

It’s a perfect tournament for players that haven’t got full playing rights and for people to gain a full exemption etc and that’s what happened

The top players on both tours early seasons ease their way in to it. This isn’t a tournament that’s going to grab them - and it has nothing to do with it being a Mixed Comp