Envy or jealousy ?

I'm old enough to remember when Scotland where in the World Cup and England weren't and as far as I can remember there was an awful lot of coverage of the Scottish team at that time. And as an Englishman living in England at the time, I was right behind Scotland and was disappointed when they went out.

So at that I was disappointed that England weren't in but delighted Scotland were and so was neither envious or jealous. I was just supporting a British team. (Sorry for going back on topic).

The difference now is that from 3-4 terrestrial channels we now have multiple channels, radio, social media, etc. so to some people it seems more "in your face".

Now, as an Englishman living in Glasgow, I've really had no issues living here and peoples reactions to me. I've had nothing but good vibes. And I've travelled all over the world and again I am seen as British not English and nobody has been negative to me for being English. I think as was mentioned above somewhere, you get what you give. If you're nice to people, they're generally nice back.
Saying that, I don't push the England results in anyones face and I don't have an England flag on my car as I am sure that it would get some damage if I did. If somebody had a Saltire on their car in England, nobody would bat an eye.
 
The first two world cups I watched as a sentient being were 74 and 78. My memory is of cheering on the Scots and the telly being full of coverage of their team and fans.

Don't remember too much humility being exhibited by the boys in kilts...

Personally, I think most England and Scotland fans are pretty similar - scarred by years of failure, expecting the worst and getting just a tiny bit giddy despite all evidence to the contrary. It's a shame that nonsense on the telly and in the papers leads to any misunderstanding..,
 
Currently available on the BBC Iplayer is a documentary shown the other week about Ally’s Army, brilliant programme, but absolutely correct about the hype.
Including the open top bus tour prior to them leaving to bring the World Cup back.
 
pauldj42 said:
Currently available on the BBC Iplayer is a documentary shown the other week about Ally’s Army, brilliant programme, but absolutely correct about the hype.
Including the open top bus tour prior to them leaving to bring the World Cup back.
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Me and my brother were in the 25,000 crowd who went to Hampden for the 1978 'Farewell party' - it was absurd - but it was brilliant. Great times. I still have my souvenir programme :)

And as World Champions Argentina did a European tour - so June 1979 finds them in Hampden to play Scotland - to show off their new wunderkind - a certain Mr Diego Maradona. And we were there among the 62,000 - and we saw that young genius - albeit he was very, very little from the back of the Rangers End. Scotland lost 3-1 but Argentia were just so good - lots of applause all around Hampden that glorious day in the sun.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Me and my brother were in the 25,000 crowd who went to Hampden for the 1978 'Farewell party' - it was absurd - but it was brilliant. Great times. I still have my souvenir programme :)

And as World Champions Argentina did a European tour - so June 1979 finds them in Hampden to play Scotland - to show off their new wunderkind - a certain Mr Diego Maradona. And we were there among the 62,000 - and we saw that young genius - albeit he was very, very little from the back of the Rangers End. Scotland lost 3-1 but Argentia were just so good - lots of applause all around Hampden that glorious day in the sun.
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...I might add that I didn't buy the 1978 album - I did however buy the 1974 one - Easy Easy they sang :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFhbOYcwbYU

How very brilliant that I still get such a massive tingle from Arthur's commentary at the end (the Czechoslovakia game I think)

And because I just must ... what a racket at Hampden :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3WSJiiflJk
 
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Robster59 said:
I'm old enough to remember when Scotland where in the World Cup and England weren't and as far as I can remember there was an awful lot of coverage of the Scottish team at that time. And as an Englishman living in England at the time, I was right behind Scotland and was disappointed when they went out.

I don't have an England flag on my car as I am sure that it would get some damage if I did. If somebody had a Saltire on their car in England, nobody would bat an eye.
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Correct on both counts... therein lies the difference
 
So it was Uruguay v France this afternoon. Since I’ve been informed on here that England get mentioned every few minutes during coverage of games they’re not playing at, I thought I’d put that theory to the test. I went in open minded, preparing to be proven wrong.

(Now admittedly i didn’t see every single minute, since I had my 3 year old to look after and popped out to get my other two from school)

The game was on ITV. Not a single mention of England until the last 8 minutes of coverage when they did a short report featuring Pickford and Southgate.

England get mentioned every few minutes during coverage of games they’re not even playing at? Not on today’s evidence they don’t. I’m sure it happens every other time though. I must have picked the one single game that was the exception to the rule, I’m sure.......
 
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I know exactly what Rudebhoy and Howling are saying - at times there is an arrogance from England football fans and they at times believe the world revolves around the England team especially when there is a tournament on and the BBC or indeed most media outlets will go a bit over the top with the hype and right now all the “it’s coming Home” etc is all over the place - MOTD for example were at it as well and it’s a program that goes all over the UK not just England. People getting a little carried away and it spills over a touch at times and looks and sounds like arrogance and it will make the home nations want England to lose - when Wales and N Ireland were doing well in the last Euros you didn’t get the same hype from the same outlets
 
Would be nice if people could think about what they post, sometimes a post can come across completely different by the use of words like, “some” or “a minority” or “the majority” etc
Not all England fans are arrogant, not all Scottish people hate the English.
At times sport can be very tribalistic and even at club level in football I’m 100% positive some fans would be offended if we classed them all the same as the embarrassing nkobs every club, regardless of nationality, have.
 
I do find rivalry a strange thing, I am Lancashire, England and football wise support Blackpool, but if my team isn't in a particular competition I will tend to want the team most local to me to win, so England over Scotland, but Scotland over a non UK team, Lancs over Yorks, but Yorks over a Southern team, Pool over Preston but Preston over a non Lancs team.
 
maxfli65 said:
Dont mix up a historic football rivalty that these days is not even that, with dislike of a people or a country or politics. There is very little imo but there is strong anti Tory feeling which can get mixed up as anti English since MaggieT. From comments all over this forum I think dislike is stronger in the other direction tbh largely because of the indyref and SNP and political issues that gets spun down south in certain media.
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You are completely wrong, in England we don't carry feelings of hatred to Scotts, when we meet Scottish people in England (and many choose to live here for some reason) we tend to treat them as equals without any feelings of superiority or alienation. Scotts living in Scotland can tend to be Clannish to the point of being racist. Nothing to be singing and dancing about. You just have to look to the Scottish anthem and how it is based on 14th century wars and English hatred. Time to get over it.
 
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SocketRocket said:
You are completely wrong, in England we don't carry feelings of hatred to Scotts, when we meet Scottish people in England (and many choose to live here for some reason) we tend to treat them as equals without any feelings of superiority or alienation. Scotts living in Scotland can tend to be Clannish to the point of being racist. Nothing to be singing and dancing about. You just have to look to the Scottish anthem and how it is based on 14th century wars and English hatred. Time to get over it.
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You are familiar with the last verse of our national anthem, I presume....
 
Thought I aught to point it out before the northerners.

I agree with the point that we are cordial to those from other parts of the British Isles. Though I think that the relationship is more complicated in the other direction for all sorts of reasons, and it's best not to assume the position of the moral high ground. Clearances, famines etc only ended a few generations ago.
 
pendodave said:
Thought I aught to point it out before the northerners.

I agree with the point that we are cordial to those from other parts of the British Isles. Though I think that the relationship is more complicated in the other direction for all sorts of reasons, and it's best not to assume the position of the moral high ground. Clearances, famines etc only ended a few generations ago.
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Transportation and the rack only ended a few generations ago but I think we have managed to leave it behind us now.
 
SocketRocket said:
You are completely wrong, in England we don't carry feelings of hatred to Scotts, when we meet Scottish people in England (and many choose to live here for some reason) we tend to treat them as equals without any feelings of superiority or alienation. Scotts living in Scotland can tend to be Clannish to the point of being racist. Nothing to be singing and dancing about. You just have to look to the Scottish anthem and how it is based on 14th century wars and English hatred. Time to get over it.
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In any relationship the dominant partner rarely has a problem with the arrangement (& may not even feel superior) but can easily find fault in the partner being dominated

Whether its two countries, societies, communities, teams, next door neighours or even siblings in a partnership. The dominant partner is usually the bigger/stronger one but this isn't about bullying which is quite different

Imagine a couple where one dominates and always chooses which film to go and see but once or twice a year after much complaining, arguments and huffs they concede and the other partner gets to choose a couple
The dominant one assumes this concession will shut them up for evermore simply by getting to decide something 2 in 10 times because that's way more than they used to get but the one being dominated still knows that 2/10 is still way below an equal footing in a partnership, so the complaining continues and the dominant partner is flummoxed even incredulous why there's still a problem

So regardless of what was accepted (even agreed) at the beginning of the partnership time has moved on and the inequality is no longer acceptable

Often the dominant one will simply fall back on the monetary contribution each brings to the partnership as to why they should choose whats best for both more often and sometimes that can be entirely correct (if its business partnership for example) But the boss cant expect the same emotional partnership that would exist between a couple in the same circumstance

So if its a partnership's based on money, power, size etc that's cool but don't be surprised when the other partner wont act all supportive and emotionally invested in how you're doing at the world cup (& might even hope you fall flat on yer face)
 
pendodave said:
You are familiar with the last verse of our national anthem, I presume....
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Are you talking about the verse which was written during the Jacobite war of 1745, which was probably only actually ever sung for the first and last time during that same year and which was never actually adopted as an official verse of the National Anthem when it was established as such in the 19th Century? Is it THAT verse?
 
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