England

[Macster]

Heskey hasnt even managed to scrape into the Villa squad since Feb, and we take him along as one of our key strikers........*shakes head*

I'll even go so far as saying that if we continue to play as badly, and ultimately fail to get far, that Capello will walk away after the WC, and go back to Club Football, if not retire.
He has the look of an exasparated man, someone who knows that ultimately, come the Main Event, we just arent good enough.

 

[haplesshacker]

Which leads to one very important question.

Why is it that the Premiership is supposedly one of the best leagues in the world, with the ridiculously highly paid players. A country where supposedly football is the national game, played by many thousands every weekend, with the FA supposedly supporting grass roots football.

It's not as if, this is the first rather uninspiring game we've seen in the last 20 years.

Why can't the FA produce the results?

Managers have come and gone. You can certainly see the frustration on Cappelos face. It can't all be the mangers fault. Past and present.

Other sports have created world beating competitors, and on a lot less money. Why can't football?


Just to qualify my question.

I'm no football pundit, fan or anything, though I did watch last nights game, but I couldn't tell you if so'an so hadn't played in the first team since Deb 21st.

I'm asking as someone who has built teams, recognises the individuals and teams aims, and generally managed them into a succesful unit. All in another sport of course. It's a question about national football as a whole and not a slagging of any individual.

 

[evahakool]

Hart

Johnson, Dawson, Terry, A Cole,

Lennon, Lampard, Barry, J Cole

Gerrard

Rooney

Good call Craphacker.

Why are we playing the same way as we were 30 years ago??? ie lumping it up to the big man up front

While Hesky done all that was asked of in terms of linking up with others what a chance he missed,boring and lacking imaganaition playing this formation!!!

Still think we we get through what is a easy group but need to improve., and hopefully play with a bit more skill and inventiveness.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Which leads to one very important question.

Why is it that the Premiership is supposedly one of the best leagues in the world, with the ridiculously highly paid players. A country where supposedly football is the national game, played by many thousands every weekend, with the FA supposedly supporting grass roots football.

The answer is simple

YES the Premier League is probably the best in the world.

BUT 60% + of the players are from overseas,some teams you have to play "Spot the Brit"

So the corelation between Premier League standard and the national Team is lost.

Fragger

 

[Dodger]

Interesting to get all the thoughts on the rights and wrongs of the England team.

IMO they were very poor last night but unfortunately for me on their day they CAN match any team so there is still a long way to go and they have a superb route in the easier side of the draw.

An interesting article from todays paper highlights a few bits that I 100 per cent agree with....




England will not win the 2010 World Cup. Their squad, compared to the major powers in world football, is lacking in nearly every position. At the root of the problem is money. English Premier League clubs owe more than all the other European clubs combined and that's a problem when the success of your national team is dependent on homegrown talent.

In the past 10 years, 34 English league clubs have gone out of business. Of the big four English clubs only Chelsea, with their billionaire Russian owner, are not running unsustainable levels of debt. Arsenal and Liverpool are as in the red as the shirts they wear, each owing close to $900 million. Manchester United were debt-free till the Glazer family took full control in 2005. Now England's most iconic club has debts in excess of $1.6 billion.

Massive wages, the highest of any of the European leagues, are paid to attract and retain top talent. The average annual salary of a Premiership footballer is $3 million. This also happens in Italy and Spain, but not to the same extent.

Spain's La Liga is dominated by Real Madrid and Barcelona. The gulf in talent between this duo and the rest of the league is immense. Last season 25 points separated third place Valencia from second-placed Madrid. This may produce an uncompetitive league but it benefits the World Cup favourites: the cream of the national talent is focused at two clubs so there is familiarity between players at national level.

The EPL clubs demand instant success. Proven talent comes at a price. So they cast their nets overseas and diminish the shrinking pool of national talent. Which in turn leads to the mistaken belief that players such as Ashley Cole are world class. This catches English football in a nasty paradox. The more successful the Premiership, the more the national team will suffer. As wages continue to rise, so too do the transfer fees. With players already making millions regardless of form or silverware, the motivation to win is diminished. Graeme Souness has warned that players are becoming impossible to manage, with fines no longer effective.

The general lack of moral fibre may ensure fodder for the British tabloids, but it's also indicative of a bigger problem.

Steven Gerrard endured the stress of his well-publicised trial during pre-season - and are we to believe that played no part in his poor form last season? Recently crocked skipper Rio Ferdinand first celebrated his call-up to the England squad in 1997 with a spot of drink driving. In 2003 he was banned from the pitch for 8 months for failing to show at a routine drugs test. He and Frank Lampard were also caught up in the Aiya Napa sex tapes scandal.

Former captain John Terry was caught up in reports of an arrest for affray. The open mocking of American tourists while out drinking days after 9/11 was distasteful, even before his affair with a team-mate's girlfriend split the England dressing room and lost them the talents of Wayne Bridge, Cole's only real competition at left back. Terry's father Ted was exposed offering cocaine to an undercover reporter and last year his mother was allegedly caught shoplifting. Chelsea may have done the double this season, but respected player turned pundit Alan Hansen is not the only one to question Terry's drop in form. He rates Terry's chances of a good World Cup as no better than 50-50.

It's 44 years since England won their only World Cup and for all the above reasons, disappointment seems set to be the only thing for England's trophy cabinet. Again.

....what do you guys think of the article??

Here's hoping!

 

[CannyFifer]

No defender in this comp will want lennon running at them all he needs is a final ball.No defender on last nights performance would like to play against Heskey all he needs is a goal.

Answered the doubters with that statement
why are they there if they cant score or play the final ball. I hope they do well but said in an earlier thread the squad wouldnt make the top 5 in the EPL.

 

[Smiffy]

The one big benefit of last nights game is that it will make the Canadian Grand Prix look distinctly exciting this afternoon.

What a pile of dross

 

[haplesshacker]

So is the general feeling then, that if Green hadn't of let the ball slip through his hands, and England had won. That the performance still wasn't great? Or is it purely led by the fact that they did lose?

Apologies for what seems like a stupid question. But which is more important to the ametuer pundits on here. The result or the performance?

Cause I get the feeling that the result isn't as important as the performance, both on here and in the media. And hasn't that always been the case with the English team.

 

[Smiffy]

Performance.
England are crap

 

[bobmac]

I'm glad I watched the golf instead

 

[madandra]

oh dear, I realise we were woeful, but at least we are there!

I can understand you being defensive mate but is simply being there enough to satisfy the England fans. As a Scotland fan we are tickled pink just by rubbing shoulders with the big boys. Us qualifying is like a team from London having to qualify.


England only have the devine right to win the world Cup of the OVER PAID. They were snuffed out by a team who are paid a poultry amount by comparison.

 

[Robobum]

Here you go, an honest appraisal without any refernece to the amount of money they are paid by their CLUBS (As that is totally irrelevant to the WC)

Green:- Just awful, amzingly basic error that would have served as a kick in the bollox for everyone else in the team too. Very hard to recover for that.

Johnson:- Steady, his pace got him back in position on the rare occaision he was caught. Excellent going forward.

Cole:- Steady also, nothing troubled him down that side.

Terry:- Excellent, aggresive, dominant just exactly what you'd expect from him.

King:- Caught under the ball for one cross but actually recovered well. Any suggestion that the groin injury is related to lack of training etc is pure guess work.

Lennon:- Looked like a boy playing man's football. Never had a direct run at his full back to show pace etc. Disapointing

Milner:- Looked leggy and ill. Deservedly withdrawn.

Lampard:- Non existant. Game passed him by for large chunks as he struggled to find the right position.

Gerrard:- Very good first game. Excellent finish and real captains performance.

Rooney:- Off colour on the night. Visibly fustrated by his poor touch and distribution. Still has genius in his locker and expectation every time he had the ball was still there. He won't have a poorer game for a long time.

Heskey:- The goal would have capped off a wonderful performance. Ask the American defenders how easy it is to play against Heskey, dominant, good ball retention. Dead on his feet when withdrawn.

For so many players to be off colour and then only have the win snatched away by a comedy error speaks volumes for this bunch of players. We only ever looked troubled once when Carragher was done for pace (he would have been in row z if he hadn't been booked 2 minutes before) and it would have been a comfortable 1 nil without getting out of 2nd gear.

Some may have mistaken the aim of the World Cup similar to the way they treat their golf.

Long drives and 160 yard wedges may be your thing but it means bugger all when you sign for an 80. Playing great football in match 1 means bugger all if you go and lose. The aim of the game is to be there for as long as possible no matter how that is acheived.

P.S World Cup in Germany, 17th June 2006, USA 1, Italy 1. What did those Italinas ever do!!??

 

[shagster]

some fair accessments, but my personal opinion was utter crap. if chelsea played like that, and they did a few times this season, then i would turn off. wish i was not recouperating from op or i would have been on the course.
i know heskey done the job he was asked, but chelsea played villa without drogba, who is world class, and destroyed them 7-1, which shows they can play several ways, which obviously england cant.
the wolly with the brolly could have done that last night, if not better.
i am a lampard fan, but why was he playing last night, he is an attacking midfielder end of. parker would have done better.
why have we taken so many injured players, which are going to cost us, and as for carragher, very lucky not to be sent off.
i do not watch england that often, and i can now remember why. wrong players in wrong positions. we are not and unlikely to be a team.
as others have said 3-3-4 or 1-5-4 with attacking players out wide.
if robben and percie stay fit then i cant see past holland, along as there is no in fighting.
shagster

 

[JustOne]

At the root of the problem is money.

No. The root of the problem is picking a team that involves Heskey.

Sack the manager and pick some guy off the street instead!

 

[CannyFifer]

At the root of the problem is money.

No. The root of the problem is picking a team that involves Heskey.

Sack the manager and pick some guy off the street instead!

as an impartial observer unfortunately, he was the best player on the park

 

[birdieman]

Anyone see the Slovenia goal? - another Robert Green moment but this time for the Algerian keeper.
Surely this vindicates Green a little as the bounce of the ball from a similar 'easy' save totally foxed the Algerian keeper.
Also tv pundits are pointing out that this new 'perfect round' ball that Mr Blatter has brought in isn't making for good long range shooting as was the intention, seems every attempted long range shots just balloon way over the bar. Why can't they just leave the standard ball alone?
It's like Fifa want every game to be 5-4, probably to please the Yanks, when all real football fans can take just as much pleasure out of a well crafted 1-0 win.

 

[Spinn77]

England were poor yesterday - Green isnt really up to it and the second half save he made was very lucky. He should have got it round the post, but his hand went past the ball and having hit his wrist the ball hit the bar - very fortunate.

Some one else mentioned that the performance may force a change of tactics, and hopefully Fabio will stumble onto his best 11. Surely that includes J Cole wide left and Gerrard off Rooney. For all Lennon's pace he can't pass or cross (so whats the point), but i'm afraid there isnt a viable alternative down the right. Perhaps we'll be seeing Milner push him for that spot, or even 15 - 20 mins per game of SWP. We simply dont keep the ball well enough, and a 442 just exergerates that flaw.


However, the USA are a fairly defensive team, and, its easy, or should be easy, for teams at that level to be very well organised and disciplined defensively. Its good coaching and hard work on the training ground and doesnt require actual skill with the ball.

We should qualify easily still. And, i feel we'll do better against teams who are trying to score themselves and not always getting everyone behind the ball

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I'm with Pokerjoke on this one, it was great but it wasn't bad either. You can't legislate for Green's mistake but at that level he shouldn't be making it. The save in the 2nd half wasn't particularly great either, a keeper at that level shouldn't get beaten at his near post.

I worry about the quality of our strikers, Heskey showed he has no confidence by putting his laces through it when he should have placed it to the keepers right but apart from that he had a good game. Lennon should have shot 1st half instead of making a poor cross.

The decision not to play Joe Cole from the start was a strange one but then to put SWP on instead of him was ludicrous.

All in all it wasn't the worst performance I've seen, I think too many people underestimate USA and are being overly critical of England as a result. We should win the next 2 games at a canter and then the tournament starts in earnest.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Surely this vindicates Green a little as the bounce of the ball from a similar 'easy' save totally foxed the Algerian keeper

Absolutely no way. There was nothing difficult about that shot from Dempsey. Green lost concentration pure and simple. There was no difficult bounce, no bobble, no deflection no nothing. There is absolutely no excuse for letting that in.

 

[RGDave]

I was disappointed by the way England played. I'm not a pessimistic as some, but I did shout at the telly and wonder just how hard it can be to pass the ball to midfield, over to the right (Lennon) and have Rooney and Crouch around to receive balls low (?!) and high.
SWP looked as dangerous as a lump of washed-up seaweed.
Heskey is mostly a pointless member of the team, despite his assist.

and why did they stop trying on about 87 minutes....pathetic.

1 decent move is all it takes. 1 decent move was all we needed in 86 minutes after the first goal. If we'd have done it, nobody would be talking about the goalie error.