Dropping under penalty on tee

[berniethebolt]

In a friendly(!) rollup a player tops his tee shot on a par 3 into some heavy rough surrounding a pond. He finds it, declares it unplayable and decides to drop back under penalty. Directly behind where his ball was found is the Ladies' winter tee box - a wooden raised platform covered in some green material. Can he drop on this?

 

[jim8flog]

Yes.

 

[rulefan]

Yes.

Provided the ladies' tee box is on the line from the hole through where his unplayable ball lies and he drops within 1 cl of that line.

 

[berniethebolt]

Thanks Yes the drop was done in the correct position. It just that it being a par 3 there was no cut to fairway length and dropping anywhere else would have left a difficult shot compared to from the tee and was that fair. Rub of the green I suppose. We allowed it although our pro said that was wrong!

 

[Colin L]

It depends if the wooden winter teeing areas are "in play" when they're not being used.

Why did the pro say it was wrong?

It doesn't matter whether the platform was in use as a teeing area or not. It is an immovable obstruction but there is nothing to stop you dropping a ball on it and playing from it.
The pro was mistaken.

 

[rulefan]

That may well be the case, but without knowing the reason why he said it, is that guaranteed?
Can the temporary tee be a no play zone, or whatever they are called?

In theory, yes. But why ?

 

[Colin L]

I assume that had it been a No Play Zone, the OP would have said so.

To be a No Play Zone it would firstly have to be designated as a penalty area or GUR, but to echo rulefan, why would you do that? It's an obstruction by definition which takes care of its interfering with anyone's play and as it's designed to be played from, why would you want to stop someone from playing from it?

 

[Colin L]

Pointless asking me why ?, I know as much info as you so far ?‍ , and as we all know, most times the whole info doesn't come out in the initial question.

So basically the structure could have been out of play and the pro could be right.

And on the basis of the information given, the OP has been answered simply and correctly: the player was entitled to drop on and play from the tee and the pro was mistaken in saying that he wasn't.

The structure could have been an aluminium framed platform; it might have been the 6th tee; the player might have been left-handed ........ What's the point in inventing stuff?

 

[Colin L]

The status of the tee was established by the description:
Directly behind where his ball was found is the Ladies' winter tee box - a wooden raised platform covered in some green material.
It is an immovable obstruction.

It is permissible to define tees other than the one being played as GUR and a No Play Zone but not recommended. If it keeps you happy then yes, this platform tee could have been defined in this way and if it had been, the pro would be correct. But had it been so, a different question would have had to be asked than the one that was asked - and fully answered.

 

[backwoodsman]

Just to prolong the argument a bit ;

If the temporary tee was a No Play Zone, would it not have to be marked as such? And if it was so marked, the OP would have known it was a No Play Zone and would have known they couldnt play from there. And so wouldn't need to ask either the Pro, or the forum, for an answer?

 

[robinthehood]

You would think so, but we just need to find out if that was the case, most rules questions don't need to be asked on here, but they are ?

Whenever a question is asked, isn't it normal for the precise details to be extracted before a full and complete answer, with different options, is given?

I've simply raised the question of whether a specific winter tee was a no play zone as that is one factor that has a bearing on the answer.

Interested to hear the pro's reason, he may be wrong, he may be right, but without the full facts we don't know.

Ive found Golfing prowess is not a useful indicator of rules knowledge.

 

[berniethebolt]

To attempt to clarify the situation there was no indication on the tee, near the tee, on the notice boards or anywhere else that play was prohibited from that tee or any other winter tee of which we have several, nor in the 40+ years I have played there has there ever been such designation. The pro's reaction, as he admitted, was that he felt that it gave the player an unfair advantage and was therefore against the spirit of rule 1 if not the letter. The reaction of fellow players was that it did indeed give him an advantage but he was just lucky which seems to be the general opinion here. Thanks to all who answered.

 

[robinthehood]

Referring to...?

The Pro...

 

[berniethebolt]

Yes should have known I would get a better response from the experts here! Disappointed in a way that Swango hasn't joined in. Sorry Swango only kidding.

 

[Slab]

To attempt to clarify the situation there was no indication on the tee, near the tee, on the notice boards or anywhere else that play was prohibited from that tee or any other winter tee of which we have several, nor in the 40+ years I have played there has there ever been such designation. The pro's reaction, as he admitted, was that he felt that it gave the player an unfair advantage and was therefore against the spirit of rule 1 if not the letter. The reaction of fellow players was that it did indeed give him an advantage but he was just lucky which seems to be the general opinion here. Thanks to all who answered.

Re; an unfair advantage:

He's playing 3 off the ladies tee
Doesn't sound like he's getting an advantage over the fellas that popped it onto the green in one... or anyone else really, except maybe if another guy had to hit his 3rd from the original tee (but then again even he could tee the ball up)

I've never felt advantaged in any way taking my 2nd or 3rd shot from a forward teeing area

 

[berniethebolt]

His advantage was that he was playing a shot of 40 yds from a smooth flat surface rather than from thickish grass or from 120 yards further away back on the men's tee. Given the choice between those three I know which I would choose. If you are thinking the ladies tee is close to the green is is the winter tee, there is the pond and then a steep bank up to an elevated green. The tee is there for a reason!

 

[rulie]

To attempt to clarify the situation there was no indication on the tee, near the tee, on the notice boards or anywhere else that play was prohibited from that tee or any other winter tee of which we have several, nor in the 40+ years I have played there has there ever been such designation. The pro's reaction, as he admitted, was that he felt that it gave the player an unfair advantage and was therefore against the spirit of rule 1 if not the letter. The reaction of fellow players was that it did indeed give him an advantage but he was just lucky which seems to be the general opinion here. Thanks to all who answered.

Did the player play by the letter of the applicable Rule? If yes, then he has also played in accordance with Rule 1. Rule 1 does not over-ride the other Rules.

 

[Slab]

His advantage was that he was playing a shot of 40 yds from a smooth flat surface rather than from thickish grass or from 120 yards further away back on the men's tee. Given the choice between those three I know which I would choose. If you are thinking the ladies tee is close to the green is is the winter tee, there is the pond and then a steep bank up to an elevated green. The tee is there for a reason!

For me its not an advantage; You say he's playing a shot I say he's playing his 3rd shot.... into a par 3 green !
He's had to 'pay' a penalty in order to play from there, a penalty decided on by the governing rules body, not one decided on by fellow players/club pro's reckoned the quality of the first shot was worth

I hope no one ever ends up on the green after bouncing off a tree at your place, you folks will snap his putter

 

[jim8flog]

It depends if the wooden winter teeing areas are "in play" when they're not being used.

Why did the pro say it was wrong?

bit late but maybe answered later.

What pro said what? The op does not mention a pro

 

[Colin L]

Post#4