Driving without reasonable consideration

[Billysboots]

Thanks for this.

So is the decision strictly to whether to charge and proceed to court or not? Or am I likely to be offered a fixed penalty / points?

There are what are referred to as out of court disposal options available to the police for certain low level offences, but for them to be available the person suspected of committing an offence must indicate when interviewed that they admit that offence. If the anticipated plea at court is not guilty then an out of court disposal is not an option.

It’s been a long time since I was involved in charging decisions involving low level driving offences, so cannot comment on what would be available in this instance, and if such options are even available, as things have doubtless changed since I retired. Policy regarding the use of such disposals also tends to vary slightly from force to force.

The definitive guidance on what may be available in your case must come from the force dealing with it.

EDIT: I would also add that you are worrying far too soon. You’ve not even been interviewed yet.

 

[clubchamp98]

My personal view as a cyclist and driver is you have given him plenty of room.
your car is quite a long way from the kerb.
If they have moved to miss the manhole that’s very poor from them, I would never move right in that situation there is plenty of room left of it.

Those photos are very poor and look like they have been cropped to make your car look closer.
You need photos with the kerb in all of them to show the cyclists line.
I think the full video is an absolute must in this case.

only thing I would say is if he is in the middle of the lane ( Primary riding position) to stop you overtaking then that could be a problem.
But it’s impossible from the photos to see his line.

 

[Billysboots]

View attachment 48562

View attachment 48560

got the stills through this morning. initial thoughts - pretty difficult to tell how far out from the kerb the cyclist is. I'm guessing I haven't allowed the full 1.5m (which is a guide only), but does this really show me committing an offence? I'd be interested to hear what others think.

My only observation here is that you seem to be solely focusing on the distance you may or may not be from the cyclist.

In considering this incident the police, and court in the event this gets that far, should also give regard to the wider considerations - any inconvenience caused to the approaching driver, and the fact that you appear have performed an overtaking manoeuvre on the approach to junctions, most notably the one to your right.

This isn’t just about the cyclist which, I suspect, is why you were served an NIP.

 

[BrianM]

My tuppence worth is you look far enough away, but maybe he’s pulled out a touch to avoid that grate/hole in the road, especially if he has thin racing tyres.
Hopefully it gets sorted, it seems a waste of police time in my opinion.

 

[RichA]

I've no axe to grind - we've all done it, but...



It's not just about the precise measurement from the cyclist - that's not a specific offence anyway, more a singular factor that might go towards careless driving. Your pics show that you were overtaking and you were straddling the centre line while going through a staggered junction with cars approaching in their lane that you were partially occupying. If you contest it, there might be other stuff in the video that can be added to the list.

 

[Billysboots]

I've no axe to grind - we've all done it, but...

View attachment 48569

It's not just about the precise measurement from the cyclist - that's not a specific offence anyway, more a singular factor that might go towards careless driving. Your pics show that you were overtaking and you were straddling the centre line while going through a staggered junction with cars approaching in their lane that you were partially occupying. If you contest it, there might be other stuff in the video that can be added to the list.

Exactly the point I was trying to make, Rich. Difficult to comment conclusively based on the images, as I say, but I’m not convinced the police would pursue this simply based on the OP being a foot or so too close to the cyclist.

 

[ADB]

I’ve got to say (as a cyclist albeit not a roadie) that I think the prosecutor is being particularly pedantic given they move into the middle of the lane as you are committed to pass them to avoid a drain cover. Surely they must hand 50 citations to the police a week if that is their benchmark for dangerous driving.

if you are on a busy road moving to the centre of the lane as a cyclist raises the risk to you - especially if a car is in the process of overtaking (rightly or wrongly)??

 

[sunshine]

You look far enough away from the cyclist to me. Unless he had one of these?

 

[RichA]

Exactly the point I was trying to make, Rich. Difficult to comment conclusively based on the images, as I say, but I’m not convinced the police would pursue this simply based on the OP being a foot or so too close to the cyclist.

I somehow missed your post entirely. Yep - we've basically said the same thing.

 

[AmandaJR]

So I have to comment that 5 pages of reasoned debate about the rights and wrongs as each sees them - without descending into an "I'm right, you're wrong" tit for tat. No "cyclist are the devil's spawn" "car drivers are aggressive so and sos"...

Well played lads

...and lass

 

[Billysboots]

So I have to comment that 5 pages of reasoned debate about the rights and wrongs as each sees them - without descending into an "I'm right, you're wrong" tit for tat. No "cyclist are the devil's spawn" "car drivers are aggressive so and sos"...

Well played lads

...and lass

I’ll counter that by saying if the complainant in this case had been riding an e-scooter he would have been fair game.

I’ll get my coat……….

 

[AmandaJR]

I’ll counter that by saying if the complainant in this case had been riding an e-scooter he would have been fair game.

I’ll get my coat……….

Damned right To be fair I've yet to see many (any!) being ridden in a responsible manner...

We digress!

 

[Hobbit]

So I have to comment that 5 pages of reasoned debate about the rights and wrongs as each sees them - without descending into an "I'm right, you're wrong" tit for tat. No "cyclist are the devil's spawn" "car drivers are aggressive so and sos"...

Well played lads

...and lass

You asked, I oblige.

 

[larmen]

My understanding is that car drivers give 1.5m to cyclist so they have space to dodge ‘stuff’ without getting endangered. If a cyclist moves that box out with him by dodging a pothole (while the overtake already takes place), whats the point of the distance if we can’t know how far the cyclist goes around?

 

[CountLippe]

On the theme of dodgy driving, had a good example today.

Standard 30mph road through a built up area. A woman was reversing into her driveway which was located on the inside of a bend. I stopped to allow her to complete the manoeuvre. She was halfway off the road, when a car from behind raced past on the outside, going round the bend on the other side of the road. Luckily nothing was coming the other way. Now I don't have a dash cam and even if I had, prior to reading this thread I wouldn't of thought of sending it to the police. My question is, now the technology is available do we have a responsibility to report incidents like this, and other potentially dangerous traffic violations such as running red lights, or do we accept that the authorities simply don't have the resources to review.

 

[clubchamp98]

My only observation here is that you seem to be solely focusing on the distance you may or may not be from the cyclist.

In considering this incident the police, and court in the event this gets that far, should also give regard to the wider considerations - any inconvenience caused to the approaching driver, and the fact that you appear have performed an overtaking manoeuvre on the approach to junctions, most notably the one to your right.

This isn’t just about the cyclist which, I suspect, is why you were served an NIP.

To be fair the distance from the cyclist is the only thing mentioned in the OP.
if the Police can’t get him for that should they really start looking for other things.
Things that happen thousands of times a day.

When passing a cyclist I am looking at them to make sure they have enough room and could miss the fact I am coming to a junction.
Technically not correct I know but understandable.

 

[Piece]

Some good info in here, especially in the comments section => https://www.motoroffence.co.uk/close-pass-the-ramifications-of-driving-too-close-to-a-cyclist/

 

[clubchamp98]

My understanding is that car drivers give 1.5m to cyclist so they have space to dodge ‘stuff’ without getting endangered. If a cyclist moves that box out with him by dodging a pothole (while the overtake already takes place), whats the point of the distance if we can’t know how far the cyclist goes around?

The box can’t move with the cyclist surley.
Cars are not as nimble as a bike. Most drivers don’t have the reflexes either.
1.5 m is plenty of room to miss a pothole.

imo this is a storm in a tea cup.
and as the evidence is so poor atm other things are being brought into the equation.

 

[Beezerk]

On the theme of dodgy driving, had a good example today.

Standard 30mph road through a built up area. A woman was reversing into her driveway which was located on the inside of a bend. I stopped to allow her to complete the manoeuvre. She was halfway off the road, when a car from behind raced past on the outside, going round the bend on the other side of the road. Luckily nothing was coming the other way. Now I don't have a dash cam and even if I had, prior to reading this thread I wouldn't of thought of sending it to the police. My question is, now the technology is available do we have a responsibility to report incidents like this, and other potentially dangerous traffic violations such as running red lights, or do we accept that the authorities simply don't have the resources to review.

I had one yesterday as well.
Driving home there’s a long windy country lane that has a 60mph speed limit, not that you drive that fast though maybe 40 or 50 tops. Anyway there’s a car in front of me doing 25mph all the way, black smoke belching out of the exhaust. I finally get to a section where it’s straight for about half a mile and went to overtake the car, as I’m getting along side they decided to veer to the right forcing me on to the opposite kerb. Absolutely crazy manoeuvre that could have put me in the field, it just goes to show you have know idea what mental state other road users are in.

 

[pendodave]

My question is, now the technology is available do we have a responsibility to report incidents like this, and other potentially dangerous traffic violations such as running red lights, or do we accept that the authorities simply don't have the resources to review.

Interesting. Given that traffic policing seems to be very thinly spread, I wonder if the most cost effective method of improving road safety would be to simply employ a few trained civilians in every force and encourage the general public to send stuff in.
I'm imagining that if we all knew that our driving was being constantly evaluated, the roads would quickly become a safer place.
I wonder if there's other country where this is done? Would be interesting to know how it works in real life.