Dress codes... Again

[GB72]

That is a fair point and as I say, it is all down to research and assessing the impact on the club. If the findings are that you would lose more members than you would potentially gain then the decision would be to stay with the status quo. Equally, of more people would stop using the club house than you would attract with a relaxed dress code then no change needs to be made. Much of the problem is that I have certainly never seen my club carry out investigation or research or even canvass the members on such things and so any decision made, whether it be to remain the same or make changes, are made on perceived facts and impressions rather than any actual hard analytical data.

To me, for example, allowing jeans in the club house would be a no brainer. I and all of the people I golf with wear jeans 99% of the time. As such, I am never likely to drop in to the club for a quick drink or a bite to eat because I am never going to be suitably dressed when I am passing the club. Equally, when I have finished playing my wife is never likely to drop in for some food with me because she only wears jeans so is never going to be suitably atired when she is passing the club. I know many in the same position so the club is never going to see the potential income that this could bring. Now, if the club is satisfied that there are a larger group of individuals who would stop using the club house because they would be so afronted that I would be in there in jeans then I am fine with that as the status quo is the correct position for the club financially. What, however, is more likely the case is that the members who run the club are of an age and/or persuasion that they do not wear jeans and smart casual is their normal dress. They prefer this, wish to apply this standard to everyone and so will not entertain the idea of change.

 

[Hobbit]

You say that if the members want a dress code either on the course or in the club house then this is there choice. In a number of circumstances, however, I disagree. The interests of the club as a whole have to take precedence over the interests of the current members. Now, in many circumstances these interests will be the same but not always. Lets take the situation as I perceive it at may club. The current members are happy with a dress code for the club house and the course and so one is applied. The problem is that our membership is way down and we would always be looking to increase takings in the clubhouse. If the committee has evidence that relaxing the dress restrictions either on the course or in the clubhouse would have a significant impact on takings or membership then, in the interests of the club as a whole, the dress code should be relaxed in the interests of the financial security of the club. The current members and committee are, after all, the custodians of the club and must look after its future.

As was said earlier, if membership levels are healthy and takings are good then a club should apply as strict a rules as they wish but if this is not the case then tradition or membership wishes may have to take a back seat to market forces.

Sometimes its more than just the dress code, and sometimes changing the dress code won't have a big impact on numbers. Maybe overall pricing options need a review, maybe a tweak of the dress code at the same time. Sometimes something as simple as finding the local golf society and challenging them to a 20-a-side match breaks the ice and leaving some membership flyers left in the locker room/notice board. If you get a few to join others will follow.

 

[richart]

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/mark-steel/mark-steel-people-would-play-golf-if-the-sport-wasnt-so-snobbish-1746365.html

I know at least three people who are put off golf because of silly rules, unwelcoming attitudes and dress codes.

One of them is my wife!

Surely the most important thing about golf, is playing the game. There are millions of golfers worldwide who are happy to put up with so called silly rules, dress codes etc, because they just want to play golf. I am happy to abide by different Clubs rules, because I want to play their course. Seems to me that if you are put off golf because of dress codes, you are not that serious about the game.

If I got the chance to play tennis at Wimbledon, and was told I had to wear all white, would I kick up a fuss ? Of course not, playing there is so much more important to me, than what I wear. If I had to buy special clothes that were very expensive I might reconsider, but to meet most golf club dress codes you can wear every day clothes found in most wardrobes.

 

[sev112]

Dress codes - Dear God they never go away do they.
I look at the "trousers/shirt" combo as almost a uniform.
When you play footy - you don't wear a Tux.
When you play Cricket you'd get a few looks running in to bowl in jeans
When you play anything, there is an accepted level of dress.

Why can't we have that in Golf without people criticising it?

Who decreed that shorts is the correct attire for Footy/Rugby?
Who decreed that white(generally) is the colour for cricket?

Who cares - it's a dress code.

Football is a team game - the uniform distinguishes you from the other team
Cricket ditto
Any other team competition ditto

Singles tennis - very varied dress, very limited limitations on dress
Table tennis and squash limit the colour of your shirt so that you can see the ball -a sensible practical rule
Darts - no dress code
Snooker - requires everyone to wear suits and ties - purely to retain a sense of class, no sensible reason behind it. However go to any snooker club in eth country and look at the majority of the players and they are not in DJs and suits
Bowls - everyone in white, for no reason whatsoever other than making everyone fit in. My guess is that it is an age thing but i've got very little evidence to back that up
Road cycling - team sport therefore need uniform.
Athletics- team sport ditto
Ice skating - dress as elaborately as you like ( i might be wrong there, there might be some rules)
Skiing - at professional level it's team sport therefore uniform, but at individual recreational level people wear whatever they want, although it tends to be waterproof and warm - practical reasons.



Not trying to be critical or have an argument for teh sake of it - i am seriously looking at comparisons to see why we are where we are in golf.

 

[sev112]

This topic is the perenial "old chestnut" and keeps cropping up on a regular basis. What is the problem? why do people want to wear jeans and trainers? What is this continual drive to "Chav" up our golf courses? It's simple. If you want to play golf at a private club go buy some trousers, as loud as you want,lime green, bright pink, whatever, then get a polo shirt to match, complete the outfit with a white belt then get some Puma, footjoy trainer type golf shoes and go play. If these are not chavvy enough for you and you still feel the need to play in jeans and trainers then go and play at the local muni with the rest of the chavs.
No one is asking anything outlandish, all that is required is a pair of trousersm a polo shirt and some golf shoes. Not rocket science. If you do not want to abide by golfs frankly simple dress code then go fishing or stamp collecting or indeed anything else. Now how simple is that?

This is a highly insulting post and you should reconsider how you state your views.
I am NOT a Chav , and take it extremely personally that you deem me (and any/all other "non-believers") to be one, purely because i have different view to you on dress codes.
i also do not believe you should get a choice as to what game i play in my spare time because i have different views to you.
This is the crux of this argument - it is all about views of how we deem people should behave, rather than how in fact they do behave, which is what really does matter

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I dont disagree with that. But he represents what a lot of people think, whether you agree with him or not

Unfortunately Mr Steel is trying, and it would appear succeeding albeit within a limited audience, to influence others based on his own prejudice and, as has been pointed out, largely uniformed opinion with what was probably an article dredged up in a bar on a slow news day.

I dont think it is fair to say Mr Steel represents anyone. He is putting (a hackneyed) point of view across and this type of article has come out many times before. As Viscount points out it seems to pinpoint his own prejudices rather than seek to give a balanced pro and against argument.

On a separate point then, what about those clubs that dictate exactly what you have to wear such as Wimbledon Common where its mandatory to wear a pillar box red jumper or shot to be seen by the public on the common. Would you expect to rock up and just go out and not adhere to the code because you don't have a red top with you

 

[drawboy]

This is a highly insulting post and you should reconsider how you state your views.
I am NOT a Chav , and take it extremely personally that you deem me (and any/all other "non-believers") to be one, purely because i have different view to you on dress codes.
i also do not believe you should get a choice as to what game i play in my spare time because i have different views to you.
This is the crux of this argument - it is all about views of how we deem people should behave, rather than how in fact they do behave, which is what really does matter

I do not have any say in wether you get to play golf in your spare time. My golf committee on the other hand does and if you want to play golf at my club and many others you will be expected to wear suitable attire as laid down by club rules. I happen to agree whole heartedly with them. I may be seen as old fashioned in my views but I stand by them, for me a tracksuit, jeans,trainers,combat trousers and football tops have no place on a golf course, that said for anyone who thinks they have there are many municipal clubs around the country where you can indulge your self in anything you want to play in. I used the term Chav it up because the tracksuit/trainer combo is their preferred uniform of choice and not as an insult to anyone who disagrees with my views.

 

[Pants]

Most golf clubs that I visit as a nomad player have this http://www.bfngc.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/dress-code.gif or something similar on their web site and/or posted in the club house.

Nothing too difficult to understand (it has words and pictures), fairly standard throughout the country, nothing too onerous there and I'm sure that the majority of wannabe golfers actually possess suitable attire, and, would you believe it, it doesn't abuse your human rights.

I'm sure that I will be castigated and proved wrong, but I suspect that a good proportion of those bleating on about not being allowed to wear whatever they want to play golf at members clubs are, like me, nomads (but with an attitude problem). Get over it.

If you want to play golf in trainers, jeans and a t-shirt that's fine. Just find a muni or desperate golf club that will welcome you with open arms. Take good care that your feet don't slip on that tee or fairway shot 'cos you haven't got suitable foot ware, as those grass stains and mud are so difficult to remove from your overpriced designer (look alike??) denim.

Seems to me that you are using the dress "code" as a reason not to join a club or to spend money in a club after a green fee round. If your wardrobe only had a few t-shirts and jeans then I might warm a bit to your argument but, there again, if you couldn't afford any other clothing then surely you couldn't afford to play golf.

Yes. I am a nomad golfer as I can't/don't want to afford to be a club member at the moment.

Yes. I am more than happy to abide by a club's rules regarding attire. Funnily enough, I find the required clothes the most comfortable in which to play.

 

[Airlie_Andy]

Just to clarify is anyone actually arguing to be allowed to play golf in jeans etc? Or are most people questioning the dress code for the clubhouse?

 

[JT77]

I actually like playing in trousers and golf shoes, and looking smart in general, I realise that some people feel happy in jeans and trainers, I love my jeans, wear them almost all the time away from the course, but for me, the gc is not a place for them!
Would anyone play football in jeans? are there not other sports with dress codes? perhaps we are just used to playing football in shorts and boots, so why not golf shoes and trousers for golf?
Our club allows jeans in the clubhouse, and also trainers, but football shirts are a no, partly to do with dress, but also because of the implications of football rivalry in northern ireland.

 

[brendy]

I have to say that you are paying money to be in a club, if the dress cOde doesn't suit your demands then it may be time to move on. Dress codes change very infrequently so chances are that you signed up to this code or one very similar. I wear smartish cargo trousers (craghoppers) every week, I have never been queried not do I expect to be. I have quite a lot of pairs of these type of trousers and have worn them on many of the better courses in NI and further afield too.
With regards to denim, I do still think jeans (blue or otherwise), track suits and other non golf related attire has no place on the course and limited casual clothing in the clubhouse.
I am one of the younger full members at our place but do still agree with having a dress code. Ours has recently relaxed the dress code slightly allowing smart blue denim in the clubhouse. Surveys and other local club studies were carried out and due to the close proximity to the town centre (a lot of the younger members now call in before hitting the town at weekends, families can drop in after an afternoon shopping etc) and also results showing a rise in profits, it was put to the vote and won with a large majority.
We have a main mixed lounge and also a "mens" back bar (women can use the bar but prefer the larger main lounge) and most of the denim guys tend to use it as the football,golf etc is usually on the bigscreen telly. It was also explained and covered that working jeans or holed jeans would not be allowed to make things clear and not open to any misunderstandings.

 

[sev112]

I do not have any say in wether you get to play golf in your spare time. My golf committee on the other hand does and if you want to play golf at my club and many others you will be expected to wear suitable attire as laid down by club rules. I happen to agree whole heartedly with them. I may be seen as old fashioned in my views but I stand by them, for me a tracksuit, jeans,trainers,combat trousers and football tops have no place on a golf course, that said for anyone who thinks they have there are many municipal clubs around the country where you can indulge your self in anything you want to play in. I used the term Chav it up because the tracksuit/trainer combo is their preferred uniform of choice and not as an insult to anyone who disagrees with my views.

Please re-read your post, and then kindly re-read mine

First you did decide to tell me and my ilk that we should go and play otehr sports because we dont think the same as you
Secondly i am happy to abide by all the myriad of dress codes that any golf club operates; i also do not argue with the professionals and members thereof about it.
I do however continue to argue on here, and in my clubhouse bar amongst friends, that the actual components are predominantly illogical, often impractical, inconsistent amongst the sexes, and often used to maintain a view of "acceptable behaviour".
Please do me the respect of having a view that is as reasonable as yours, albeit different.
And kindly do not continue to associate municipal golfers with chavs either

 

[sev112]

P.S. Drawboy, i apologise if i am appearing to come over agressively here - it certainly isnt my intention, however i am trying to have a sensible debate, so please do not think i am picking on you on this one

 

[daymond]

I wear ordinary trousers and collared shirts every day (retired). If a golf club required jeans to be worn I would look out my pair and wear them. If the're good enough to do the gardening the're good enough for golf.

 

[Gazboy]

I'm not entirely sure what the problem is with 241's or Nomadic golfers (or 'visitors' as the clubs call them). 50% of something is a whole lot more than 100% of nothing and nomads will still pay their green fees as advertised by the course/club themselves. If you feel that nomads bring nothing to your club other than the money in their wallets then ask your committees to change the visitor rules so that visitors must be guests of members only.

As with dress codes, surely you read the code before you visit or enroll, if you do not like certain or all aspects of a club's dress code then vote with your feet, I have no problem at all with many of them and the bits I don't like, such as long socks with shorts means that I shall play where they allow short socks during the summer, this arrangement is win/win for all involved and everyone gets their own way somehow or another.

 

[milesthenutcracker]

Nearly missed this from earlier today.

The first ever survey into what golf club members think of the business impact of dress codes is has been carried out.

Nearly half think relaxing a dress code would be good for a golf club's bar / restaurant, just 11% think it would be bad:

http://www.golfclubmanagement.net/2012/01/4036/

 

[Snelly]

First time that I have seen this topic and it makes interesting reading.

For what it's worth, I think the old chap makes good points. On the 2x1 vouchers point, maybe if there were fewer golf clubs, the remaining ones would be full of people?


In general terms, dress code is one of those subjects that people from either extreme will never agree on.

In my view, there is no place for jeans at a golf club. If you think otherwise then you a wrong and must be either relatively new to the game or just ignorant to the traditions of 200 years of golf at private clubs.

Trainers - these should be used for playing sport in and that is all. That is what they are designed for. I think people who wear them when not playing sport or exercising look pretty ridiculous. And yes, I know that you do not agree with me and no, I don’t care what you think of my view.

My view (you perhaps won't be surprised to hear in the slightest) is that golf should be a game for gentlemen and you should dress accordingly. Abide by the rules, respect the traditions and go with the flow. Otherwise go and do something else where white trainers, cargo trousers and un-tucked round necked shirts are accepted.


I think this is about right for a golf club dress code:

On the course: Tailored shorts worn with socks that match them of any length you like are permitted. Either hard or soft spikes allowed. Collarless and sleeveless shirts, T-shirts, denim jeans/jackets, tracksuits, cargo shorts/trousers and training shoes are not permitted anywhere.

Spike Bar - Golf clothing and shoes are permitted at any time.
Main Bar – Members should shower and change out of their golfing gear and wear smart casual clothing. Obviously none of the banned stuff from the course is allowed here either.
Dining room - Smart casual clothing with a jacket (no tie) may be worn at lunch time - not shorts or golf shoes. Jacket and tie required for evening meal.


Cheers,


Snelly.

 

[bluewolf]

Im not disagreeing with you Snel, but this issue seems to be gaining momentum now. If it carries on like this then we are going to reach what Malcolm Gladwell phrased as "the tipping point". I like dressing like a "golfer". I'm not a particular fan of the chinos and 10 yr old polo look, but the newer stuff looks champion.

What I would like to see at my club is the lounge reserved for "proper" golfing attire, whilst the sports bar could be a bit more relaxed..

 

[Snelly]

Im not disagreeing with you Snel, but this issue seems to be gaining momentum now. If it carries on like this then we are going to reach what Malcolm Gladwell phrased as "the tipping point". I like dressing like a "golfer". I'm not a particular fan of the chinos and 10 yr old polo look, but the newer stuff looks champion.

What I would like to see at my club is the lounge reserved for "proper" golfing attire, whilst the sports bar could be a bit more relaxed..

I think that is a good point. Have two bars with two codes. I still think jeans and trainers are a no-no though.

 

[bluewolf]

I think that is a good point. Have two bars with two codes. I still think jeans and trainers are a no-no though.

I agree with the trainers, but would respectfully disagree with the jeans. If jeans were allowed in the Sports bar, then I would probably use the club more like a local pub. It is only 1/2 a mile from my front door...