Dress codes... Again

I do not get, and never will, the complete downer on trainers. They are shoes, much like any others. I can wear golf shoes, that look like trainers, but aren't. I can wear Jean cut trousers, but not jeans. I can wear tailored shorts, with White socks on the course, but deck shoes with no socks in the club house. I can wear a square cut 'fashion' shirt untucked in the club house, but have to tuck it in on the course.

If starting from scratch, these rules are mad.
 
Ok so I'll give my thoughts for what they are worth;

1. Dress codes on the course are generally fine. I've never worn shorts on the course but if I did then I certainly wouldn't want to wear knee length socks, what would be the point? Fortunately I think my course allow ankle socks with shorts. If its good enough for a caddie at pro tournaments its good enough for me at my local course.

2. Dress codes in the clubhouse vary from place to place and as a visitor I just follow the rules they set. If its a strict dress code in the club house I just don't go in, I play my round and go home. Again my own club allows jeans and Trainers and in the clubhouse which allows for a relaxed atmosphere and encourages people to come and use the attached driving range if they are not going on the course. I basically always wear jeans as general wear so if I'm just going to hit a few balls on the driving range then I'll go in my jeans and also pop into the clubhouse for a drink. If I had to wear trousers and shoes etc then I just wouldn't bother.

I can't help thinking sometimes that dress codes are purely designed to keep the "riff raff" out though which for some reason highly annoys me.
 
We don't have a dress code at our place at all. People can wear whatever they like, personally I don't see the point in wearing jeans but purely from a practical point of view. Wear whatever you like just don't act like a tool on the course.
 
Golf's double standards.............


No socks, no sleeves! not tucked in (baby gut hanging out), shorts... on the short side.... I could find 1,000 examples.... same with women juniors... and probably the boys.

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I don't have an issue with conforming to a dress code if I want to play a course or use their facilities - as the original article said 'if I don't like it, I can go elsewhere'.
I do take issue with some aspects of dress codes, shirts tucked in being one - I'm not a good shape for that!

As to 2-4-1's clubs can control when these can be used and most (?) limit their use to their dead times
What can, and has, proved a problem is online tee-booking through third-party sites. These are normally allocated a set number of tee-times during a specific time slot. these they frequently ignore leaving the clubs to sort out the mess.
 
There are three facts that are quite clear.

1. Most members of golf clubs quite like dress codes.

2. A lot of people are put off playing golf, let alone joining a club, by dress codes.

3. Golf clubs need money, whether that be from subs, green fees or other income.

What the pro dress code people have not answered is the most obvious question:

Do you love dress codes enough to pay more money at your golf club to continue with them?
 
ArnoldArmChewer said:
I see nothing wrong with maintaining standards both on and off of the course. No jeans, no trainers, no collarless shirts, no phones, either in the club or on the course.
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I know someone who had a heart attack on his golf course and was able dial 999 on his phone for an ambulance. He also called the club who rushed out with a defibrillator. His life was saved by his mobile phone.

As for shirts - the fashion these days is for them to be tucked in. 300 years ago the youth of the day would rebel against their elders by tucking their shirts in.

Manners, dress codes etc are subjective. Some of the scruffiest people I've ever seen were wearing a jacket and tie.
 
milesthenutcracker said:
There are three facts that are quite clear.

1. Most members of golf clubs quite like dress codes.

2. A lot of people are put off playing golf, let alone joining a club, by dress codes.

3. Golf clubs need money, whether that be from subs, green fees or other income.

What the pro dress code people have not answered is the most obvious question:

Do you love dress codes enough to pay more money at your golf club to continue with them?
Click to expand...

Hi Miles and welcome...

I've heard Argument 2 before but have yet to see any proof that a dress code actually puts people off playing. People still go to Nightclubs, Weddings, interviews etc etc and wear a pair of trousers and a shirt don't they? Why should having to do the same stop people from playing golf? Do these people not possess a pair of trousers or a polo shirt?
Some rules are daft - long socks etc but is it too much to expect a pair of troos and a polo? It isn't really asking a lot is it....
Shoes are little different - you wouldn't play footy in a pair of brogues and you wouldn't play tennis in a pair of footy boots. Golf shoes are designed to stop you slipping, keep your feet dry(ish!) and protect the greens. And they don't have to be expensive.

Show me proof.
 
Having read Mr Steel's article I can only assume that he's not a golfer. A fairly shabby piece of journalism IMO. I've seen better arguments set out in The Sunday Post :)
 
I wouldn't believe most things you read in a Newspaper..

The vast majority of clubs I've played at don't require anything more than "smart casual" on the course or in the clubhouse.
Yes there are some, they are Private clubs like the "Gentleman's Clubs" of the old days where, as a Private club they can have whatever rules they like. They are in the minority.
Newspaper reports like this one are written by people who have very little idea of "real" golf clubs up and down the Country - they are not like those described, never have been and never will be.
Unwelcoming attitudes are abundant in life - look at Bobmac's thread about the Post Office.
Many Golf Clubs - no, most - are welcoming as they know that they have to be whether they like it or not. People will not play where they're not welcome. So again, the vast majority break Mark Steel's model.

Silly rules - everywhere in life there are silly rules. Golf is no different. But Golf differs from most other sports/games as the "field of play" is huge and variable. How many times do you find a tree, ditch or pond in the middle of a Football pitch? Not often, hence there is no need for a rule to combat them.

If you want a silly rule - look no further than the Offside rule.......

And I'm sorry but knowing 3 people put off playing doesn't, to my mind constitute "lots".
 
DCB said:
Having read Mr Steel's article I can only assume that he's not a golfer. A fairly shabby piece of journalism IMO. I've seen better arguments set out in The Sunday Post :)
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I dont disagree with that. But he represents what a lot of people think, whether you agree with him or not
 
Having played in our NYD Open Mixed Stableford today I saw many items of clothing that would have many on this forum turning puce with rage. However what I saw was a whole bunch of golfers out for the day and exhibiting nothing but good manners and courtesy to their fellow players.
Now yes NZ is a lot more relaxed in it's attitudes and to the vast majority of courses and clubs it matters not a jot what your wear, although Singlets are pretty must universally banned.
Thankfully we don't have the Chav culture out here so if a guy is wearing trainers and trackies no problem.

However back in the UK I'm more than happy to adhere to the rules of the course I'm playing at, just a different view form an ex-pat ;)
 
milesthenutcracker said:
I'm one person and that's from not asking many people.

When this argument broke on Twitter a few days ago scores of people were echoing Mr Steel's (albeit ignorant IMO) opinions.
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Unfortunately Mr Steel is trying, and it would appear succeeding albeit within a limited audience, to influence others based on his own prejudice and, as has been pointed out, largely uniformed opinion with what was probably an article dredged up in a bar on a slow news day.
 
Thank you to everyone that has welcomed me on this forum. I might not agree with your views, but I do feel I can participate in a debate, which is a wonderful feeling.

The editor of the Golf Club Managers Association journal has written up a story on dress codes in response to this debate, giving his views following a visit to a club.

http://www.golfclubmanagement.net/2...ed-well-you-can-end-up-with-something-better/

I agree with the point. If you want dress codes then fine, but your club might be better if you dont have them.
 
milesthenutcracker said:
Thank you to everyone that has welcomed me on this forum. I might not agree with your views, but I do feel I can participate in a debate, which is a wonderful feeling.

The editor of the Golf Club Managers Association journal has written up a story on dress codes in response to this debate, giving his views following a visit to a club.

http://www.golfclubmanagement.net/2...ed-well-you-can-end-up-with-something-better/

I agree with the point. If you want dress codes then fine, but your club might be better if you dont have them.
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Glad you like debate!!

As has been said here or on another thread, you have to have a dress code of some sorts - you can't not have one otherwise some idiot will turn up wearing nothing and demand to go on...

The point here is that Dress Codes like the one in the link are few and getting fewer.
And they're really only at the old established clubs that are -almost on purpose - holding back in coming forward. It's what the Members want and that's their choice.
The vast majority of clubs I've played at don't have these restrictions or if they do there are plenty of other places within the club that you don't have to wear a tie/jacket.
 
You say that if the members want a dress code either on the course or in the club house then this is there choice. In a number of circumstances, however, I disagree. The interests of the club as a whole have to take precedence over the interests of the current members. Now, in many circumstances these interests will be the same but not always. Lets take the situation as I perceive it at may club. The current members are happy with a dress code for the club house and the course and so one is applied. The problem is that our membership is way down and we would always be looking to increase takings in the clubhouse. If the committee has evidence that relaxing the dress restrictions either on the course or in the clubhouse would have a significant impact on takings or membership then, in the interests of the club as a whole, the dress code should be relaxed in the interests of the financial security of the club. The current members and committee are, after all, the custodians of the club and must look after its future.

As was said earlier, if membership levels are healthy and takings are good then a club should apply as strict a rules as they wish but if this is not the case then tradition or membership wishes may have to take a back seat to market forces.
 
GB72 said:
You say that if the members want a dress code either on the course or in the club house then this is there choice. In a number of circumstances, however, I disagree. The interests of the club as a whole have to take precedence over the interests of the current members. Now, in many circumstances these interests will be the same but not always. Lets take the situation as I perceive it at may club. The current members are happy with a dress code for the club house and the course and so one is applied. The problem is that our membership is way down and we would always be looking to increase takings in the clubhouse. If the committee has evidence that relaxing the dress restrictions either on the course or in the clubhouse would have a significant impact on takings or membership then, in the interests of the club as a whole, the dress code should be relaxed in the interests of the financial security of the club. The current members and committee are, after all, the custodians of the club and must look after its future.

As was said earlier, if membership levels are healthy and takings are good then a club should apply as strict a rules as they wish but if this is not the case then tradition or membership wishes may have to take a back seat to market forces.
Click to expand...

But if you extrapolate the argument then there could be a case where you relax the dress code, upset many of the existing members who take offence and leave. This parellel hypothetical case is also not a good business model.

I think the current problems with memberships being down is due to the current financial situation and not related to needing to wear a pair of trousers and polo shirt.

In most clubs that I know the largest membership group is the senior section, it always has been. Many of these people play golf two or three times a week in offpeak times and contribute greatly to the membership funds and clubhouse purchases. In my club there are around 650 golf members, 100 are ladies and 400 are seniors, these two groups use the course and support the social activites a great deal.
 
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