Dress codes... Again

[DavidO]

I really don't have a problem with dress codes, as long as they are well publicised (especially for visiting golfers)!!

If private clubs want to apply these codes, thats their call. They may miss out of visiting customers, ut if they have a membership structure that can accomodate that, then that is down to them.

 

[fat-tiger]

As with many sports golf has some dress requirements but because we insist on what people cannot wear (jeans, trainers etc) it is often the reason quoted that the game is elitist. I had this very debate (argument) with a non golfer only last night who said its the sport of elitist snobs - expensive and unreachable for most people. I pointed out to him that his 'hobby' of running a powerful motorbike for weekend jaunts only cost far more than my gear / club membership and any other social costs by far - he wasn't too happy about that comment and tried to argue this wasn't the case then was surprised that it worked out at about £5 a round.

Try play other sports without the gear and you will stand out like a sore thumb but nobody levels the same argument against them so there is clearly a perception problem for golf.

I for one don't mind that there is a dress code at a members club - I am not elitist or snobby in the least (coming from Grimsby you can't afford to be ) but I do like that golfers take on board the requirements without too much comment if they want to be a member. We have some readily accessible manciple courses that anyone can play with very little in terms of dress code nobody complains when they are there - they know the score - why complain when you are at somewhere where you equally know the score but choose to play anyway?

However - in the clubhouse I think there should be a little give and take and I am glad that our club is responding to this and allowing more casual dress for some functions while reserving the (only slightly ) more stricter attire for 'golfers only' event - dinners etc. After all like any sport we need to attract the membership to keep the clubs running and a slightly more relaxed approach to this is welcomed by most reasonable people.

very well said, weres the problem as long as you look smart, i for 1 dont want to have a meal with a jacket on, i dont sit at home and eat me tea in my coat on

 

[Hobbit]

As golfers we all have a pretty good idea of what is expected out on the course, and if we're visiting somewhere we know to ask about it. Its not difficult is it?

But the social side is a nightmare. I cringe when I see the bar staff or committee man pull a guest who's turned up for a meal. Its unmanageable in its current guise in many clubs. I've argued time and again that we shouldn't embarrass a guest or the member he is with by refusing to serve them. And if we do accept guests dressed as they come how on earth can we stop a member coming into the bar dressed similarly. What is 'fun' though is watching a committee man trying to explain to someone who's had several pints that they are improperly dressed.

 

[User20205]

To be honest though, do trainers really look good with tailored shorts?

I'm not sure if they do, however according to most clubs this would be acceptable

surely trainers can't be any worse ?

 

[JustOne]

surely trainers can't be any worse ?

Ha! I think sandals are the ONLY thing that look good with tailored shorts, but without the socks obviously,... and that includes being in Spain!

Trainers with tailored shorts make otherwise fat out of shape sweaty blokes look as if they're trying to prove that they are fit.

 

[DCB]

Okay, interesting mix of responses here. It's amazing how many have got hung up over the dress code issues. I've played a fair amount of golf in my time and have never yet been pulled up, anywhere, with regard to what I have worn either on the course or in the clubhouse. You go prepared, especially if it's one of the 'posh' clubs. I don't have a problem with that. I can go back to the days where even a run of the mill club required jacket & tie in the clubhouse after a round. Things have moved on, but we have to respect whatever a club has in place if we are a visitor to their club.

2 for 1 vouchers, as I've said before in one of these debates, they are a serious threat to clubs and their visitor numbers. Great for a holiday golfer or an occasional visit to a nice course, but, they get abused by groups who threaten to take their business elsewhere if they can't use them. How can an accurate forecast be planned, for budget purposes, when a large proportion of your visitors are paying half price ? The visitors fees used to be a good addition to any golf clubs budget, good income that could be ploughed back into the club and course. The only winner is the company selling the vouchers. I know people who have played their golf via 2 for 1 across the country when they could quite easily be a member for the same sort of money they spend on their jaunts. As for secondary spend, well I've yet to see a club pro crack open the champagne after a visiting party of 2 for 1 golfers. Groupon offers are even worse !

 

[GB72]

Interesting to compare these points of view to those contained in an article in this months magazine. The interview with the captain of the PGA who is also a golf consultant states that his view is that golf in the 21st Century should exclude nobody and goes as far as saying that if you want to wear jeans, you should be able to and if you want to use a phone, pc or ipad on the course then that is fine as well. His view is that none of these should be looked down on.

This is not my view, I am happy with chinos and a polo shirt and will not wear jeans if for no other reason than they are not great in a number weather conditions.

As for two for one vouchers, I think that they are unnecessary but will always exist unless clubs ge their pricing policies right. If clubs had variable green fees depending on the popularity of the tee time, gave discounts for 4 balls to encourage the largest groups possible for each tee time and, more importantly, worked out how much a round at the course is worth rather than arbitrarily charge £30-£50 a round then the gaps would fill withouth the need for voucher schemes and tee time websites. Instead, clubs stick to their static pricing policies leaving the room for a company to come in and make money out of their inefficiencies.

 

[Steve King]

I always thought the County Card system was fairer to both Golfers and Clubs.

2for1's in principle are a good thing because in theory people would also then pay for drinks & meals, stuff from the pro shop etc

except that it usually costs a lot more at the golf club...

 

[drawboy]

This topic is the perenial "old chestnut" and keeps cropping up on a regular basis. What is the problem? why do people want to wear jeans and trainers? What is this continual drive to "Chav" up our golf courses? It's simple. If you want to play golf at a private club go buy some trousers, as loud as you want,lime green, bright pink, whatever, then get a polo shirt to match, complete the outfit with a white belt then get some Puma, footjoy trainer type golf shoes and go play. If these are not chavvy enough for you and you still feel the need to play in jeans and trainers then go and play at the local muni with the rest of the chavs.
No one is asking anything outlandish, all that is required is a pair of trousersm a polo shirt and some golf shoes. Not rocket science. If you do not want to abide by golfs frankly simple dress code then go fishing or stamp collecting or indeed anything else. Now how simple is that?

 

[JustOne]

I think that they are unnecessary but will always exist unless clubs ge their pricing policies right. If clubs had variable green fees depending on the popularity of the tee time, gave discounts for 4 balls to encourage the largest groups possible for each tee time and, more importantly, worked out how much a round at the course is worth rather than arbitrarily charge £30-£50 a round then the gaps would fill withouth the need for voucher schemes and tee time websites. Instead, clubs stick to their static pricing policies leaving the room for a company to come in and make money out of their inefficiencies.

Totally 100% agree, like I said the clubs lack business acumen... don't know if that's a general inability or 'stuffiness' that'll ultimately cost them their business.

 

[GB72]

This topic is the perenial "old chestnut" and keeps cropping up on a regular basis. What is the problem? why do people want to wear jeans and trainers? What is this continual drive to "Chav" up our golf courses? It's simple. If you want to play golf at a private club go buy some trousers, as loud as you want,lime green, bright pink, whatever, then get a polo shirt to match, complete the outfit with a white belt then get some Puma, footjoy trainer type golf shoes and go play. If these are not chavvy enough for you and you still feel the need to play in jeans and trainers then go and play at the local muni with the rest of the chavs.
No one is asking anything outlandish, all that is required is a pair of trousersm a polo shirt and some golf shoes. Not rocket science. If you do not want to abide by golfs frankly simple dress code then go fishing or stamp collecting or indeed anything else. Now how simple is that?

I thoink the debate needs to go beyond whether existing golfers think that relaxing dress codes is good or bad. The fact is that most clubs need more members and many face closure so ideas have to be tried. The question that needs to be asked and studied is 'if we relax the dress code in the club house, will the takings increase and if we relax them on the course, will we have more members'. If the answer is yes and relaxing the dress code would ensure the financial security of the club and would also allow stable annual fees then it would be hard to argue it to be a bad thing. If it would not make any substantial difference to either set of takings then you should be as strict as you like. I think that this can only be seen as a business decision and not one about image, tradition or anything else.

 

[Hobbit]

I thoink the debate needs to go beyond whether existing golfers think that relaxing dress codes is good or bad. The fact is that most clubs need more members and many face closure so ideas have to be tried. The question that needs to be asked and studied is 'if we relax the dress code in the club house, will the takings increase and if we relax them on the course, will we have more members'. If the answer is yes and relaxing the dress code would ensure the financial security of the club and would also allow stable annual fees then it would be hard to argue it to be a bad thing. If it would not make any substantial difference to either set of takings then you should be as strict as you like. I think that this can only be seen as a business decision and not one about image, tradition or anything else.

A few years back "we" relaxed the dress code for the clubhouse. Saturday evenings see a few guys stay a little longer before they disappear into town. And Thursday and Friday tea times see a couple of guys come in for a few before disappearing off home. Financially its not worth a great deal, probably about £30/week = £1500-ish a year, with a gross profit of about £380. More importantly it means members get to experience a more welcoming club.

Personally I don't like it but I've never criticised it because as far as I'm concerned I'm old fashioned. And if those guys weren't in the club I'd miss out on some good company.

 

[MikeH]

I really don't have a problem with dress codes, as long as they are well publicised (especially for visiting golfers)!!
If private clubs want to apply these codes, thats their call. They may miss out of visiting customers, ut if they have a membership structure that can accomodate that, then that is down to them.

I'd say this post by DavidO sums up the dress codes issue perfectly.

For clubs with full (and happy) memberships then they can be as traditional as they like for everything from dress codes to charging a joining fee, format of play etc.

It is the clubs who are struggling for members and/or visitor business that might want to consider whether or not their dress codes (plus a host of other factors such as current membership model, attitudes to women, juniors, families etc) might be potentially costing them business.

 

[DCB]

It is the clubs who are struggling for members and/or visitor business that might want to consider whether or not their dress codes (plus a host of other factors such as current membership model, attitudes to women, juniors, families etc) might be potentially costing them business.

Oh Mike, you're opening a much larger can of works with that statement

 

[sev112]

There are so many duff arguments being made here e.g.

- if you think jeans will get wet, then dont wear them, but that's no reason to ban them?

- trainers are apparently the worst thing in the world, yet almost every modern golf shoe is a trainer with a set of spikes in

- socks must be knee length ???

- shirts must be tucked in ?

There is no reason for any of these other than individual views on style and acceptability, which are the most subjective subjects in the world. How therefore they form the basis of dress codes i have no idea.


Most people thnik i am anti dress code. Actually i'm not, i abide by them as much as possible, barring the odd short becomeing untucked on the hottest day of the year. I am still entitled to point out the illogicality of half of teh compenents of most dress codes.

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

Morning all
Those who follow us on twitter may have seen a tweet linking to an article on the golf club managers website about dress codes. It's prompted a huge reaction on twitter
http://www.golfclubmanagement.net/2011/12/if-you-dont-like-our-dress-code-go-somewhere-else/
Have a read and let us know what you think

Thankfully we still maintain a dress code on the course but I have to say it has been relaxed within the clubhouse. This in my opinion is a retrograde step that will inevitably find its way on to the course. I see nothing wrong with maintaining standards both on and off of the course. No jeans, no trainers, no collarless shirts, no phones, either in the club or on the course. Forget moving with the times, it is not always a move in the right direction, maintain dress and manners.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

This is always a topic for fierce debate. For me its simple. If I play at another club I check the dress code on their website in case it is one of these still stuck in the old days that insisit on jacket and tie after a certain time or for dining in the restaurant (eg The Berkshire). Most have seen the light and will let you wear the clothes you played in, changing out of the golf shoes of course and for most that is the perfect scenario.

I usually take a spare pair of trousers if it is forecast to lash it down as no-one wants to sit on a damp chair once I leave and I'd feel uncomfortable in wet clothes. A simple courtesy to my fellow members and how long does it take to put a dry pair on?

As for 2-4-1 vouchers, I can see their popularity and I've made use of them myself and there are some good deals to be had. Are they really that bad for business as surely any money coming in for green fees has to be better than nothing and if a club really has strong issues why are they partaking in the scheme anyway

 

[Imurg]

2-4-1's are bad for business.

As long as the Club was going to get that business in the first place. If the 4 ball were going to come anyway then they're bad news as you only take for a 2-ball.
But if they had no intention of coming then you've at least made a 2-ball fee + anything afterwards from it.
Clubs don't have to take them, Mine doesn't but some around here do.
We played Fundy's place a few weeks back on a 2-4-1 - cost us £12 each. Would we have gone if we'd have been paying £24 each? - maybe, maybe not. As it happens they got 24 quid and we had some nosh after. Money they maybe wouldn't have got otherwise.

Dress codes - Dear God they never go away do they.
I look at the "trousers/shirt" combo as almost a uniform.
When you play footy - you don't wear a Tux.
When you play Cricket you'd get a few looks running in to bowl in jeans
When you play anything, there is an accepted level of dress.

Why can't we have that in Golf without people criticising it?

Who decreed that shorts is the correct attire for Footy/Rugby?
Who decreed that white(generally) is the colour for cricket?

Who cares - it's a dress code.

If a club wants to have a dress code then why shouldn't they?
And as for shorts - well anyone wearing shorts for Golf should be shot in front of their Families.....:ears:

 

[SocketRocket]

2-4-1's are bad for business.

As long as the Club was going to get that business in the first place. If the 4 ball were going to come anyway then they're bad news as you only take for a 2-ball.
But if they had no intention of coming then you've at least made a 2-ball fee + anything afterwards from it.
Clubs don't have to take them, Mine doesn't but some around here do.
We played Fundy's place a few weeks back on a 2-4-1 - cost us £12 each. Would we have gone if we'd have been paying £24 each? - maybe, maybe not. As it happens they got 24 quid and we had some nosh after. Money they maybe wouldn't have got otherwise.

Dress codes - Dear God they never go away do they.
I look at the "trousers/shirt" combo as almost a uniform.
When you play footy - you don't wear a Tux.
When you play Cricket you'd get a few looks running in to bowl in jeans
When you play anything, there is an accepted level of dress.

Why can't we have that in Golf without people criticising it?

Who decreed that shorts is the correct attire for Footy/Rugby?
Who decreed that white(generally) is the colour for cricket?

Who cares - it's a dress code.

If a club wants to have a dress code then why shouldn't they?
And as for shorts - well anyone wearing shorts for Golf should be shot in front of their Families.....:ears:

Good points Jezza.

 

[Imurg]

2-4-1's are bad for business.

As long as the Club was going to get that business in the first place. If the 4 ball were going to come anyway then they're bad news as you only take for a 2-ball.
But if they had no intention of coming then you've at least made a 2-ball fee + anything afterwards from it.
Clubs don't have to take them, Mine doesn't but some around here do.
We played Fundy's place a few weeks back on a 2-4-1 - cost us £12 each. Would we have gone if we'd have been paying £24 each? - maybe, maybe not. As it happens they got 24 quid and we had some nosh after. Money they maybe wouldn't have got otherwise.

Dress codes - Dear God they never go away do they.
I look at the "trousers/shirt" combo as almost a uniform.
When you play footy - you don't wear a Tux.
When you play Cricket you'd get a few looks running in to bowl in jeans
When you play anything, there is an accepted level of dress.

Why can't we have that in Golf without people criticising it?

Who decreed that shorts is the correct attire for Footy/Rugby?
Who decreed that white(generally) is the colour for cricket?

Who cares - it's a dress code.

If a club wants to have a dress code then why shouldn't they?
And as for shorts - well anyone wearing shorts for Golf should be shot in front of their Families.....:ears:

Good points Jezza.

How hard can it be..?:thup: