DP World Tour Feeder Tour ?

[Deleted member 15344]

So the answer is to give up and sell out to the PGA Tour.

Imagine the sponsors that they could attract if the DP World Tour could boast McIlroy, Rahm, Fitzpatrick, Lowry, Fleetwood, Rose etc with some older names for generational brand recognition like Poulter and Westwood. That could so easily be marketed to sponsors and would have serious ranking points but that means you need to retain the talent. Imagine if McIlroy was the defacto spokesperson for the DP World Tour and not the PGA Tour, again, sponsors would love it. Instead, most of those mentioned are increasing the profile of the PGA Tour and what happens when the next McIlroy comes along that grabs the public's attention, he is sent off to the PGA tour to benefit them under the new agreement.

So what is the answer then ?

How are you going to get those players playing week in week out on the ET tour traveling all over the world

 

[BiMGuy]

The European tour is toast Phil, they can’t compete with the PGAT because the guy who controls that tour also has a place at the table of the DPWT - he’ll always make sure the PGAT gets priority.

Over the next few years there will be a move to establish a few events outside the U.S with good prize money to attract the big players, and it will all come under the title of the PGA Tour.

The DPWT will continue to exist but at the most insignificant level it has in our lifetimes.

The ET hasn’t been able to compete with the PGAT since before Tiger.

The US has more, better players than Europe. It has a better junior and college program generating the players. More of the better players from all over the world are starting to go to college in the US.

Other than a few top events, the ET is maybe the same level at the Korn Ferry.

 

[GB72]

So what is the answer then ?

How are you going to get those players playing week in week out on the ET tour traveling all over the world

What is the full solution, hard to say but surely a starting point is not signing an agreement that sends your top players off to the PGA Tour every year. Then you try and strengthen what you have. Trying to retain players may be hard but getting them back towards the later stages of their career to help promote the tour may assist. Find out where the opportunties are, LIV showed that Australia will support a large event then look at China, Korea and other Eastern nations that play and have money to invest. If you are A World Tour, be just that and not a glorified European Tour with some middle eastern events tagged on. Perhaps join with other global tours to try and create a proper world series. Plenty of things could be tried that are better than bowing and doffing your cap to the PGA Tour.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

What is the full solution, hard to say but surely a starting point is not signing an agreement that sends your top players off to the PGA Tour every year. Then you try and strengthen what you have. Trying to retain players may be hard but getting them back towards the later stages of their career to help promote the tour may assist. Find out where the opportunties are, LIV showed that Australia will support a large event then look at China, Korea and other Eastern nations that play and have money to invest. If you are A World Tour, be just that and not a glorified European Tour with some middle eastern events tagged on. Perhaps join with other global tours to try and create a proper world series. Plenty of things could be tried that are better than bowing and doffing your cap to the PGA Tour.

The best players on the ET always leave anyway

And the ET already go to all those areas - that’s not going to get the best players to play by traveling the four corners of the earth to play

The ET play in Europe , Africa , Australia, Middle East and Asia

They have spent the last 20 years going to these places to try and get more money more interest.

But it’s not worked to a level that competes against the PGAT. LIV had one good event in Australia, just one , the rest even with the huge money haven’t got anywhere near PGAT levels

The players play on the PGAT because

Entry into majors
Money
Ease of travel.

 

[Imurg]

The 10 cards on offer are full cards for 1 year.
Those who earn the cards will have to upsticks and give the PGAT all their focus.
They then have to do well enough to keep their cards...not an easy thing to do.
A number of those 10 will be back on the DPWT after a year..
So, most years, 10 may go but, probably, 7 or 8 from the previous year will return....
And it's being assumed that they all want to anyway....most will but for some it may not fit with their lifestyle for whatever reason.

 

[CountLippe]

The ET hasn’t been able to compete with the PGAT since before Tiger.

The US has more, better players than Europe. It has a better junior and college program generating the players. More of the better players from all over the world are starting to go to college in the US.

Other than a few top events, the ET is maybe the same level at the Korn Ferry.

I'd add to that, that golf is far more popular in the states than Europe which is why purses and tv deals are so high, why the college system works and consequently why talented non US players gravitate there. I'd imagine the number of spectators even at minor PGA tour events is greater than any ET event bar Wentworth and the scot/irish opens. The ET does well to exist at the level it does, and luckily most the europeans retain their euro tour memberships.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Thank god we’re never going to have to see Poulter as RC captain.
Honestly think id be cheering for the US if he was.

 

[BubbaP]

"The DP World Tour said it would provide a further update on the 14 other sanctioned LIV players later on Thursday."
Has anyone seen anything?

 

[Beezerk]

"The DP World Tour said it would provide a further update on the 14 other sanctioned LIV players later on Thursday."
Has anyone seen anything?

The time difference means they're waiting on advice from the PGA

 

[Deleted member 15344]

"The DP World Tour said it would provide a further update on the 14 other sanctioned LIV players later on Thursday."
Has anyone seen anything?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1654191686661070848

 

[wjemather]

The 10 cards on offer are full cards for 1 year.
Those who earn the cards will have to upsticks and give the PGAT all their focus.
They then have to do well enough to keep their cards...not an easy thing to do.
A number of those 10 will be back on the DPWT after a year..
So, most years, 10 may go but, probably, 7 or 8 from the previous year will return....
And it's being assumed that they all want to anyway....most will but for some it may not fit with their lifestyle for whatever reason.

Will they? I expect that most of those taking up their PGA Tour cards would be tournament winners so benefit from a multi-year exemption on the European Tour, but would the others even have playing rights for the following year? Also, if they have made the commitment to move to the US, surely it's more likely they would choose the Korn Ferry Tour (and PGA Tour Americas) route.

 

[Backsticks]

That is a fair point but the question is how you deal with that position. To use a football analogy, DP Tour are managing a league one club that wants to be in the Premier League. Ideally what they would do is try and strengthen their side and bring in more talent to gain promotiion and move up the ranks. What they have opted to do is accept that they are always going to be a league one club and have cut a deal to transfer all of their best players to Premier League sides. I good analogy may be Southampton of a few years ago or West Ham, located, recruited and developed no end of talent that was sold on to help bigger clubs go from strength the strength whilst getting progressively worse themselves until relegation is potentially on the cards.

Honest question, if the DP World Tour tried to grow itself and recruit top players on to the Tour and really increase its profile, does anyone actually think that the PGA Tour would not come after them as hard as they did with LIV. It just helps that LIV is an easy target compared to another tour.

Would the closer football analogy not be that :

- the Championship as a whole decides it isnt going to be second division to the Premiership, but refresh football so that it appeals to a whole new young audience
- Is going to break away completely, stop promotion and relegation, recruit Spurs, Chelsea and Man City who will leave the Premiership, Champions League, and Europa League.
- A big outside investor, who will own all of the teams and control their PR, will pump money into Millwall, Preston, Hull and Reading to allow them buy big international names.
- Jettison some clubs so that it is a league of only 12 teams, who no longer play their matches around England, but go to Costa Rica, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Melbourne, etc so that they can grow the game.
- Matches will be three stints of 15 minutes each, all played in new Superstadia where all 6 games are played simultaneously on adjacent pitches allowing fans to watch all 6.
- there will be a new Individual Football Champion where a league of all players in the all the squads are awarded points according to how they play, and so even within each team, players will be competing against themselves for this Individual Football Champion prize with astronomical money the reward
- it will be watchable on Youtube

Greg, not sure if you know anything about football - but this is how crazy LIV sounds to the golf world outside the LIV forcefield bubble.
Pelley and the European tour do know, and rejected the deal, knowing their place is as the Championship equivalent of pro golf tours.

 

[GB72]

Would the closer football analogy not be that :

- the Championship as a whole decides it isnt going to be second division to the Premiership, but refresh football so that it appeals to a whole new young audience
- Is going to break away completely, stop promotion and relegation, recruit Spurs, Chelsea and Man City who will leave the Premiership, Champions League, and Europa League.
- A big outside investor, who will own all of the teams and control their PR, will pump money into Millwall, Preston, Hull and Reading to allow them buy big international names.
- Jettison some clubs so that it is a league of only 12 teams, who no longer play their matches around England, but go to Costa Rica, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Melbourne, etc so that they can grow the game.
- Matches will be three stints of 15 minutes each, all played in new Superstadia where all 6 games are played simultaneously on adjacent pitches allowing fans to watch all 6.
- there will be a new Individual Football Champion where a league of all players in the all the squads are awarded points according to how they play, and so even within each team, players will be competing against themselves for this Individual Football Champion prize with astronomical money the reward
- it will be watchable on Youtube

Greg, not sure if you know anything about football - but this is how crazy LIV sounds to the golf world outside the LIV forcefield bubble.
Pelley and the European tour do know, and rejected the deal, knowing their place is as the Championship equivalent of pro golf tours.

That would be a fair analogy if I was discussing Liv but I was not. This was about the DP world tour selling out to officially become a feeder tour for the PGA. Maybe a Liv connection would not be the right route but it was a suggestion.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

It's perfect business, if Saudi Govt wants sports washing then what is the best way to do it have your players play on a major tour and have LIV golfers talked about every week on Sky Sports golf Channel etc.

They won't see it that way when it's collaborating with Dubai, believe me as someone working in Aberdeen, that is not how they work.

 

[sunshine]

Would the closer football analogy not be that :

- the Championship as a whole decides it isnt going to be second division to the Premiership, but refresh football so that it appeals to a whole new young audience
- Is going to break away completely, stop promotion and relegation, recruit Spurs, Chelsea and Man City who will leave the Premiership, Champions League, and Europa League.
- A big outside investor, who will own all of the teams and control their PR, will pump money into Millwall, Preston, Hull and Reading to allow them buy big international names.
- Jettison some clubs so that it is a league of only 12 teams, who no longer play their matches around England, but go to Costa Rica, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Melbourne, etc so that they can grow the game.
- Matches will be three stints of 15 minutes each, all played in new Superstadia where all 6 games are played simultaneously on adjacent pitches allowing fans to watch all 6.
- there will be a new Individual Football Champion where a league of all players in the all the squads are awarded points according to how they play, and so even within each team, players will be competing against themselves for this Individual Football Champion prize with astronomical money the reward
- it will be watchable on Youtube

Greg, not sure if you know anything about football - but this is how crazy LIV sounds to the golf world outside the LIV forcefield bubble.
Pelley and the European tour do know, and rejected the deal, knowing their place is as the Championship equivalent of pro golf tours.

Nailed it, although recruiting Man City is a little aspirational. More like Everton and West Ham.

 

[BubbaP]

Know this is mainly about DPWT, but a few references to the US college system in previous posts.
Latest tweaks to PGA Tour University -

PGA TOUR announces enhanced benefits for PGA TOUR University

PONTE VEDRA BEACH, Fla. – Starting with this year’s seniors in the Class of 2023, the top five players in the final PGA TOUR University Ranking will receive additional performance benefits that extend through the 2024 season, the PGA TOUR announced Monday. The PGA TOUR Policy Board approved...

www.pgatour.com

Have said before, wherever you stand on the 'good for the game' debate, they have some shrewd business people in their ranks.

 

[Jason.H]

Wonder if it would be possible to become world number 1 by just playing the European Tour? You’d probably have to win 10 events and 2 majors at least per year.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Wonder if it would be possible to become world number 1 by just playing the European Tour? You’d probably have to win 10 events and 2 majors at least per year.

180 points in Majors, then lets say you picked up wins in all 10 top DPWT events (bear in mind some of these are now co-sanctioned so that in itself would be incredibly difficult) which would probably be around 210 points... That takes you to 390. If we use the minimum divisor of 40, that gives you an average of 9.75 - enough to get you into 3rd place.
To become world number 1, you'd currently need a ranking of 10.6, so in the remaining 28 events, you would need to be picking up an average of 0.85 points per event, so never finishing anything lower than around top 25.
Conversely, two majors and ten good wins on the PGAT would probably give you an average of around 19 points - miles clear of everybody else.
Summary - it's possible, but now highly unlikley.

Seve was world number one multiple times built on his European Tour success of course, but sadly, those days are long gone.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

With sanctions, fines and suspensions being handed out to 26 players , I suspect there will be more resignations and the greatest talent dump from European Golf ever.

Add in the top 10 money leaders going to USPGA Tour each year.

How does the DPWT attract sponsors in the future for its regular events that make up 90% of the tours schedule ?

The players involved create interest in a tournament so with all the best known players resigning or leaving for the PGAT the interest is going to be low.

This European Tour has been in decline for decades and its hard to see at the moment how the strategic alliance in response to Liv golf is going to turn that decline around.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Would the closer football analogy not be that :

- the Championship as a whole decides it isnt going to be second division to the Premiership, but refresh football so that it appeals to a whole new young audience
- Is going to break away completely, stop promotion and relegation, recruit Spurs, Chelsea and Man City who will leave the Premiership, Champions League, and Europa League.
- A big outside investor, who will own all of the teams and control their PR, will pump money into Millwall, Preston, Hull and Reading to allow them buy big international names.
- Jettison some clubs so that it is a league of only 12 teams, who no longer play their matches around England, but go to Costa Rica, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Melbourne, etc so that they can grow the game.
- Matches will be three stints of 15 minutes each, all played in new Superstadia where all 6 games are played simultaneously on adjacent pitches allowing fans to watch all 6.
- there will be a new Individual Football Champion where a league of all players in the all the squads are awarded points according to how they play, and so even within each team, players will be competing against themselves for this Individual Football Champion prize with astronomical money the reward
- it will be watchable on Youtube

Greg, not sure if you know anything about football - but this is how crazy LIV sounds to the golf world outside the LIV forcefield bubble.
Pelley and the European tour do know, and rejected the deal, knowing their place is as the Championship equivalent of pro golf tours.

I thought you were defending LIV initially till the end, because yes your analogy is good, and yes it does sound as bad as LIV is (Mod Edit)