DP World Tour Feeder Tour ?

[Beezerk]

Really don't care. Just another petty squabble that shows all parties in a bad light. That said, the Ryder Cup is a circus these days and I really do not think it matters where golfers come from, who captains and how many picks you get. It is just a money spinner.

Plus you get those nob fans who dress up in the EU outfits

 

[GB72]

So how would they go about doing that?

Cut a deal to allow LIV players on tour. Players get ranking points, tounraments get mor ranking points and big name entrants which attracts more sponsors, which attracts more golfers to enter and you then hope it snowballs from there. Whilst I neither support LIV or the PGA (I think they both need to disappear and a new global body take over) it would be nice to see the European Tour actually challenge for greater status rather than capitulating and accepting feeder tour status and gurantee that it will lose its tops players to the PGA every year.

 

[Newnsy]

It's business not politics, considering that LIV is literally Saudi govt money, there's no way they'd sanction that link up

It's perfect business, if Saudi Govt wants sports washing then what is the best way to do it have your players play on a major tour and have LIV golfers talked about every week on Sky Sports golf Channel etc.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Plus you get those nob fans who dress up in the EU outfits

I hope not...don't they know we left

 

[Newnsy]

It looks more like the European tour dodged a bullet. They explored it. Pellet discusses it in No Laying Up recently.
The second division to a clear first division PGAT, with a close link up, is a much better long term proposition.
There cannot be two winners. Rival tours are two hobbled tours.

I Listened to the interview, Personally I thought how he was discussing the DP Tour was embarrassing to the players who have committed to the tour and just made them second class to PGA tour players.

Most sports have Rival leagues tours etc and survive and even flourish in some cases, Football being the perfect example. La Liga is great league Premier League is great league but the Championship or First Div are never going to be on the same level as the premier league. Every team is just going to want to get into the top league..... and I mention League 1 because KF Tour gets more spots than DP world tour so if your are a young aspiring tour pro where do you go DP world or KF tour?

 

[Backsticks]

Not really, I guess the news is that what could be seen as the obvious next generation of captains has been removed from the equation.

My dog could captain a Ryder cup team. It is just a bigged up testimonial payday for long serving, prominent members of both tours. Losing a couple who probably would have been captains were it not for LIV, matters not a jot to the chances of future teams.

 

[GB72]

My dog could captain a Ryder cup team. It is just a bigged up testimonial payday for long serving, prominent members of both tours. Losing a couple who probably would have been captains were it not for LIV, matters not a jot to the chances of future teams.

Never said it would but the media so love the whole Ryder Cup captian thing and that is why it is a story. That was the point I was making rather than that is makes any real difference at all.

 

[Backsticks]

I Listened to the interview, Personally I thought how he was discussing the DP Tour was embarrassing to the players who have committed to the tour and just made them second class to PGA tour players.

They are second class. He knows it, they know it, we know it. But that is no bad thing, and better recognised for the fact that it is, and base strategy about being a clear second division, with close ties to, and a clear pathway to, the premier division.

 

[Backsticks]

Never said it would but the media so love the whole Ryder Cup captian thing and that is why it is a story. That was the point I was making rather than that is makes any real difference at all.

They will still make it a story. Just about someone other than Poults or Westy.

 

[Newnsy]

They are second class. He knows it, they know it, we know it. But that is no bad thing, and better recognised for the fact that it is, and base strategy about being a clear second division, with close ties to, and a clear pathway to, the premier division.

Totally disagree they play all over the world could be argued they play better courses certainly play more diverse courses. How does that make it a second class tour? Surely it gives it the standing to be the best tour ?

 

[Backsticks]

Totally disagree they play all over the world could be argued they play better courses certainly play more diverse courses. How does that make it a second class tour? Surely it gives it the standing to be the best tour ?

The players arent as good. That is the key. The best are on the PGAT. Poor level of players is why LiV has failed as a challenge to the PGAT, and is sub DP Tour. The players themselves know they are the second division, but aspire to graduating to the first.

 

[Beezerk]

My dog could captain a Ryder cup team. It is just a bigged up testimonial payday for long serving, prominent members of both tours. Losing a couple who probably would have been captains were it not for LIV, matters not a jot to the chances of future teams.

You’re such a happy chappy aren’t you, a real ray of sunshine

 

[Mel Smooth]

You’re such a happy chappy aren’t you, a real ray of sunshine

Dopamine is evidently quite addictive ;-)

 

[Newnsy]

The players arent as good. That is the key. The best are on the PGAT. Poor level of players is why LiV has failed as a challenge to the PGAT, and is sub DP Tour. The players themselves know they are the second division, but aspire to graduating to the first.

So by getting together with LIV bringing in the better players which brings in more sponsorship and more money and bigger events and more players would be a bad idea. Why?

 

[BubbaP]

Am a bit confused by the references to 'choice' in regard to yesterday's news. DPWT had been pushing stories all week (am sure LPhil twitter posted one of them) about additional fines for each LIV tournament played (retrospectively and going forward). So pretty much forcing the hand to leave. Some choice!
The PGAT has what it wanted now.

Also the RC is a bit of a distraction, but several posters have picked up on the main debate points - future of what was the European Tour.

 

[GB72]

The players arent as good. That is the key. The best are on the PGAT. Poor level of players is why LiV has failed as a challenge to the PGAT, and is sub DP Tour. The players themselves know they are the second division, but aspire to graduating to the first.

That is a fair point but the question is how you deal with that position. To use a football analogy, DP Tour are managing a league one club that wants to be in the Premier League. Ideally what they would do is try and strengthen their side and bring in more talent to gain promotiion and move up the ranks. What they have opted to do is accept that they are always going to be a league one club and have cut a deal to transfer all of their best players to Premier League sides. I good analogy may be Southampton of a few years ago or West Ham, located, recruited and developed no end of talent that was sold on to help bigger clubs go from strength the strength whilst getting progressively worse themselves until relegation is potentially on the cards.

Honest question, if the DP World Tour tried to grow itself and recruit top players on to the Tour and really increase its profile, does anyone actually think that the PGA Tour would not come after them as hard as they did with LIV. It just helps that LIV is an easy target compared to another tour.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Am a bit confused by the references to 'choice' in regard to yesterday's news. DPWT had been pushing stories all week (am sure LPhil twitter posted one of them) about additional fines for each LIV tournament played (retrospectively and going forward). So pretty much forcing the hand to leave. Some choice!
The PGAT has what it wanted now.

Also the RC is a bit of a distraction, but several posters have picked up on the main debate points - future of what was the European Tour.

The choice was made last year by the players

They made the choice to go to LIV knowing there would be consequences.

They were offered money to play on an unsanctioned tour - asked for releases , were told no but decided to go anyway.

So the maybe the conscious decision to go against the ET membership terms and conditions. By being members of the ET they can’t play on unsanctioned tours - so either pay the fine each time they play , leave LIV or leave ET.

And the ET will stay the same as it has been for the last 10 plus years , the main stay for the players outside the top 75 plus the odd events with the top players turning up.

That is a fair point but the question is how you deal with that position. To use a football analogy, DP Tour are managing a league one club that wants to be in the Premier League. Ideally what they would do is try and strengthen their side and bring in more talent to gain promotiion and move up the ranks. What they have opted to do is accept that they are always going to be a league one club and have cut a deal to transfer all of their best players to Premier League sides. I good analogy may be Southampton of a few years ago or West Ham, located, recruited and developed no end of talent that was sold on to help bigger clubs go from strength the strength whilst getting progressively worse themselves until relegation is potentially on the cards.

Honest question, if the DP World Tour tried to grow itself and recruit top players on to the Tour and really increase its profile, does anyone actually think that the PGA Tour would not come after them as hard as they did with LIV. It just helps that LIV is an easy target compared to another tour.

The only way to get the top players in is bringing in bigger prize funds , to get that will need to bring in bigger sponsers, something they have struggled to do for years.

They can’t compete against the PGAT tour. 3 majors are also based there , it also gives them a more central base as opposed to the ET which is now across the world.

 

[Mel Smooth]

The choice was made last year by the players

They made the choice to go to LIV knowing there would be consequences.

They were offered money to play on an unsanctioned tour - asked for releases , were told no but decided to go anyway.

So the maybe the conscious decision to go against the ET membership terms and conditions. By being members of the ET they can’t play on unsanctioned tours - so either pay the fine each time they play , leave LIV or leave ET.

And the ET will stay the same as it has been for the last 10 plus years , the main stay for the players outside the top 75 plus the odd events with the top players turning up.

The only way to get the top players in is bringing in bigger prize funds , to get that will need to bring in bigger sponsers, something they have struggled to do for years.

They can’t compete against the PGAT tour. 3 majors are also based there , it also gives them a more central base as opposed to the ET which is now across the world.

The European tour is toast Phil, they can’t compete with the PGAT because the guy who controls that tour also has a place at the table of the DPWT - he’ll always make sure the PGAT gets priority.

Over the next few years there will be a move to establish a few events outside the U.S with good prize money to attract the big players, and it will all come under the title of the PGA Tour.

The DPWT will continue to exist but at the most insignificant level it has in our lifetimes.

 

[GB72]

The choice was made last year by the players

They made the choice to go to LIV knowing there would be consequences.

They were offered money to play on an unsanctioned tour - asked for releases , were told no but decided to go anyway.

So the maybe the conscious decision to go against the ET membership terms and conditions. By being members of the ET they can’t play on unsanctioned tours - so either pay the fine each time they play , leave LIV or leave ET.

And the ET will stay the same as it has been for the last 10 plus years , the main stay for the players outside the top 75 plus the odd events with the top players turning up.

The only way to get the top players in is bringing in bigger prize funds , to get that will need to bring in bigger sponsers, something they have struggled to do for years.

They can’t compete against the PGAT tour. 3 majors are also based there , it also gives them a more central base as opposed to the ET which is now across the world.

So the answer is to give up and sell out to the PGA Tour.

Imagine the sponsors that they could attract if the DP World Tour could boast McIlroy, Rahm, Fitzpatrick, Lowry, Fleetwood, Rose etc with some older names for generational brand recognition like Poulter and Westwood. That could so easily be marketed to sponsors and would have serious ranking points but that means you need to retain the talent. Imagine if McIlroy was the defacto spokesperson for the DP World Tour and not the PGA Tour, again, sponsors would love it. Instead, most of those mentioned are increasing the profile of the PGA Tour and what happens when the next McIlroy comes along that grabs the public's attention, he is sent off to the PGA tour to benefit them under the new agreement.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The European tour is toast Phil, they can’t compete with the PGAT because the guy who controls that tour also has a place at the table of the DPWT - he’ll always make sure the PGAT gets priority.

Over the next few years there will be a move to establish a few events outside the U.S with good prize money to attract the big players, and it will all come under the title of the PGA Tour.

The DPWT will continue to exist but at the most insignificant level it has in our lifetimes.

The ET has been “toast” for decades

When was the last rime the ET was consistently at a high level week in week out ? Prob not since the early 90’s

The PGAT own a percentage of the ET and also had to step in over the years to help bring in sponsership.

The ET still holds cards for The Open and Ryder Cup which will keep the top European players coming across for a handful of events.


I know you can’t see past the PGAT is all bad but the ET has been poor for a long time