Does God Exist?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Snelly
  • Start date Start date
Of course I'm sorry for your loss Valentino, even though I don't know you it's hard for anyone to lose someone that is close to them - that almost goes without saying - and it's good of you to post your experience of it. I understand your sentiment.



I have no idea if you want to hear what I have to say.. I don't want to offend anyone clearly, but it's a discussion subject at this level... nothing more and certainly nothing personal.
 
Valentino said:
Ok I'll try and explain why and describe my experience. Apologies for the tone it may contain.

I don't think I had ever cried at a funeral my whole life and on the 2nd of September this year my Mum died very suddenly, a sad and devastating day and a day I dreaded happening my whole life. My mum was not i'll so all very shocking.

Fast forward 5 days to the day of the funeral, I stayed as strong as I could for my own family, my brother and my mums 3 sisters and did not cry a tear the whole week even during the funeral however afterwards was a different kettle of fish, yes I cried and cried a lot.

Why?

I'll tell you why, I lost my mum and the stark realisation that the women who made me the person I grew to be was no longer here, I can no longer wish her happy birthday, happy christmas or happy mothers day in person. Sure I can go to the cemetary and visit and say a few words to give me a bit of comfort but it's not the same. I miss her every single day.

It's my thought that people cry at funerals because people realise that those being put to rest will no longer be there to lend an ear for a chat or sound off.
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:thup:
 
JustOne said:
(part of the thread progress.... and YES there is a reason for my question)

Can someone answer this question... why do we cry at funerals?
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I think I know where your going with this so my answer is:

For selfish reasons - as Phil says. If people where being altruistic they'd be happy for the dead person.

(Assuming a heaven based assumption for the afterlife and therefore confusing religion with the question of divinity)

This is an interesting debate.

(Sorry for your loss Valentino, no offense meant, simple caught out by my slow typing - mine was a therotical answer, it's easy to forget we don't live in a therotical world)
 
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JustOne said:
Of course I'm sorry for your loss Valentino, even though I don't know you it's hard for anyone to lose someone that is close to them - that almost goes without saying - and it's good of you to post your experience of it. I understand your sentiment.



I have no idea if you want to hear what I have to say.. I don't want to offend anyone clearly, but it's a discussion subject at this level... nothing more and certainly nothing personal.
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Fire away James
 
coolhand said:
For selfish reasons - as Phil says. If people where being altruistic they'd be happy for the dead person
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Without sounding patronising... I'm glad you said it.... I was preparing myself for the backlash!

So it begs the question (indeed answers the question to a degree...)... why believe in God?
 
JustOne said:
Without sounding patronising... I'm glad you said it.... I was preparing myself for the backlash!

So it begs the question (indeed answers the question to a degree...)... why believe in God?
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Of course it is because we are sellfish, if we weren't sellfish we wouldn't be sad.
 
walshawwhippet said:
:thup:
This sort of stuff allays amuses me Snelly.
If you take the Old Testament as literal proof of human history, which some people are want to do, then Noah was around during the late neolithic, early bronze age periods of human history. The technology available to us at this time would of meant building anything much larger than your average canal barge impossible. It certainly would have been a tight squeeze.
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They can't really say that for definite though.improbably yes but impossible? Especially with an all powerful god on your side ;). They can make an educated guess but not state it as an outright fact. They still struggle to explain the construction of the pyramids based on the technology of the time. Anyway I just thought I'd throw that creationist theroy in there. Might not be the strongest theroy but a valid one none the less depending on the lens you view the world through. I notice the first part of my post was overlooked though.
 
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Valentino said:
Of course it is because we are sellfish, if we weren't sellfish we wouldn't be sad.
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Yes, we are mourning OUR loss, we feel sad for ourselves... we will miss them, they won't be there, and technically they've just gone through something that we don't want to.. and we are scared! It's all about us. yes we respect, indeed love that person but our reaction is purely a defensive one designed to protect us as best as possible. It's no different to reading bad headlines in a newspaper.. we are drawn to them by our defense mechanism, it's part of a learning process that our brain is trying to protect us, and IN MY OPINION it's the same for religion (back on topic!) it's part of our subconcious brain trying to protect us... no different than getting in a boat if you thought there was a flood coming.... well death IS coming.... grab your boat.

....if you see what I mean.
 
JustOne said:
Yes, we are mourning OUR loss, we feel sad for ourselves... we will miss them, they won't be there, and technically they've just gone through something that we don't want to.. and we are scared! It's all about us. yes we respect, indeed love that person but our reaction is purely a defensive one designed to protect us as best as possible. it's no different to reading bad headlines in a newspaper.. we are drawn to them by our defense mechanism, it's part of a learning process that our brain is trying to protect us, and IN MY OPINION it's the same for religion (back on topic!) it's part of our subconcious brain trying to protect us... no different than getting in a boat if you thought there was a flood coming.... well death IS coming.... grab your boat.

....if you see what I mean.
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A very good analogy James (did I really say that ;) )

Believing in god and following religion particulalry in the thought that there is something better aftewards is a defense mechanism, I'm not scared of dying at all, im scared of suffering before it don't get me wrong and I worry about what I leave behind but as for death itself it comes to us all.

Having a bit of faith is comforting, im a believer much in the mould of what bladeplayer posted. When the chips are down I say a prayer or 2 and it gives me some sort of hope, weather it changes anything is another matter.
 
JustOne said:
Yes, we are mourning OUR loss, we feel sad for ourselves... we will miss them, they won't be there, and technically they've just gone through something that we don't want to.. and we are scared! It's all about us. yes we respect, indeed love that person but our reaction is purely a defensive one designed to protect us as best as possible. It's no different to reading bad headlines in a newspaper.. we are drawn to them by our defense mechanism, it's part of a learning process that our brain is trying to protect us, and IN MY OPINION it's the same for religion (back on topic!) it's part of our subconcious brain trying to protect us... no different than getting in a boat if you thought there was a flood coming.... well death IS coming.... grab your boat.

....if you see what I mean.
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And the promise of a ticket to that boat holds an awful lot of power.

A power that has been historically abused.
 
Valentino said:
A very good analogy James (did I really say that ;) )
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Careful!!! You'll be accused of stroking my ego and then you won't be 'one of them' any more!! :D

Agree with your sentiment... I don't want to suffer, it'll hurt, and whilst I can 'man up' and be brave about it.. I'm scared, my subconcious certainly is.. my brain chooses to live not die.. and as a result it's not something that I'm really looking forward to.

I don't want to die and leave those people that I love behind, but again that's selfish, it's all about me. Would I like to think that i'd go to a better place? of course! with my very own Augusta and free ProV1's... but I know that's not going to happen. It's worm food for me... defense mechanism or not.

I accept that (in theory) I could be wrong.. there might be some guy standing at a gate.... or a lift that takes me down to the 'hot place'... :mad:

Bring it on...... eventually :mad::p..



coolhand said:
And the promise of a ticket to that boat holds an awful lot of power.

A power that has been historically abused.
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Absolutely.


As I said, understanding why we cry at funerals answers the question of religion FOR ME.
 
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palindromicbob said:
They can't really say that for definite though.improbably yes but impossible? Especially with an all powerful god on your side ;). They can make an educated guess but not state it as an outright fact. They still struggle to explain the construction of the pyramids based on the technology of the time. Anyway I just thought I'd throw that creationist theroy in there. Might not be the strongest theroy but a valid one none the less depending on the lens you view the world through. I notice the first part of my post was overlooked though.
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Oh goody hear we go.
DNA similarities excist because we have all evolved from the same slime(no not him)that evolved from complex amino acids 3.5 billion yrs ago. A process that has been reproduced in laboratories. Not yet "proved" bacause this is science, just the latest theory backed by evidence.
As for neolithic/bronze age technological abilities there is quite a lot of archeological evidence in existance. We are talking of a culture here who had only just become agrarian and yet some people believe they had the technology to build the largest ocean going vessel ever built by man out of WOOD. I'am no engineer but i would say the tollerencies involved would render this undertaking impossible.
Know for the pyramids. We now exactly how they were built. The Egyptians left written records, records recently unearthed. Interestingly the theories put forward prior to these discoveries were remarkably close to reality, but then they were theories based on the archeological evidence previously in existance.
Science is based on evidence, evidence from results garnered from experiments that can be repeated. Faith is just that, faith, it is not a theory. IMO of course :ears:
 
JustOne said:
(

Can someone answer this question... why do we cry at funerals?
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Why do we cry at all ??

the same reason people might cry when someone emigrates , or a simple as a parents tears when a child moves away to collage, of course ill see you at the weekend but ill miss you never the less ...

your present life as you know it has changed for ever & you cry because you are sad .. sad that you wont have that persons company or hear their laughter or share their sorrow on a daily basis as you have known ,

Yes it is selfish , but you show me some who hasent cried & il show you someone who has never known a love so great you would walk on fire to protect that person ...
 
We cry at funerals because we will never see that person again, irrespective of whether we believe they are worm food or on a cloud playing a harp.

Additionally, we cry on occasion because we empathise with those who have lost someone very close.

It may be that you could argue that those with faith have less reason to cry as they are safe in the knowledge that their loved ones are in a better place at God's side. However, that is not an argument that I support at all. Crying is just part of the grieving process. Simple as that really.
 
PhilTheFragger said:
Ok , james, whats on your mind

Fragger
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Probably and its only a guess , sorry if im wrong James, if you believe in God that person is gone to a far better place with no pain or suffering to wait to be reunited with you on your last day , so why cry when they are obviously so better off where they are going ..

Any way close James ?
 
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